Are feminists getting played?

[Maniak]

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathrooms in a world that has women still working for no pay, old women still more likely to be poor, surrogacy, underfunded maternity care, and poor support for carers. And other stuff.

Yes, the trans thing is annoying, but have you noticed how it always fires up before major elections? It's like Afghanistan in the 80s when the US provided just enough weapons to keep the war going so Russia would use all it's energy and get weak.

I feel like feminism is getting distracted with the trans stuff. At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention. But I rarely see feminism these days that isn't all about trans. Seriously. Do you think we're getting played here? Is trans really such a big deal?

Every single mammal species on the planet has two sex classes: male and female, in humans the adult members of the female sex are called women.

But lets re-write language just because a tiny minority of entitled men are unhappy with the material reality of biology (yes, I know there are female cheerleaders too but really that's what it comes down to).

"If I want a female HCP, what do I ask for? How do I know if she's got a womb, cervix, or what?"

Yeah, this is a good point and I was trying to figure it out on that thread Sakura started, but I couldn't. That was about asking for female midwives. And the point other people raised was that some male doctors are really good and sensitive, and some female HCPs are terrible. But even so it's fair to ask for a female HCP (and I agree it is) but on what grounds exactly? Like, I just want to state the argument. Because it wouldn't be as legitimate to ask for a HCP of a particular race or age (?)

And I don't think it's because of their cervix. For me, I think it would be more that I don't want a man, but that could just be sexism. I don't know.

There is no meaning to feminism if female doesn’t have any meaning any more.

So kind of needs sorted as priority really.

Laws are made of words. Words matter.

This idea of equality with men

Whose idea is that ? Is it the idea of men? Is that a male interpretation of feminism?

Feminism is nothing to do with "equality with men".

Feminism is about females working to achieve power and control over their female lives everywhere across the world.

Feminism is about liberating females from the domination of patriarchy.

Feminism rejects those men who claim to be women. Those men completely disregard girls and women and trample all over our boundaries against our consent. This is very patriarchal behaviour on the part of those men; their expression of male dominance and enforcing the subjugation of females.

We are having none of it! We are saying to those men "No!" And we are saying to those men "We women will not submit .. get over it!"

Every single mammal species on the planet has two sex classes: male and female, in humans the adult members of the female sex are called women.

Yup!
Female is the body that supplies the large gamete
Male is the body that supplies the small gamete.

Two gametes : two sexes. That's it! There is nothing more.

What is the point of any of this?

Is it just a thought experiment?

Why do you want to remove the word woman?

At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention.

Could you be a bit more specific, OP?

"It's offensive to suggest that I don't have anything in common with other females just because I haven't expelled a human from my body."

That's true and I don't think that at all. Far from it. I just think though that there's no harm in articulating very clearly what we mean by woman. So yeah, there are definitely clear burdens associated with thep female reproductive system even without pregnancy. We can say so in clear terms. When we say women are treated differently because they might get pregnant we DON'T mean all women. We mean women of a certain age and lifestyle.

Why do you want to remove the word woman?

They can't even though those men want to remove it.

The UK Equality Act 2010, section 212, defines the sexes thus:

man is a male of any age
woman is a female of any age

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/212

Well, one way would just be to roll over on the semantic stuff, and just be womb-bearers or whatever. Don't get me wrong, I hate all that language, but it is just words.

If we lose the right to define what a woman is then there is no feminism.

I was sexually harassed in the street from about 11 years old. I had short hair and wore non-sexualised clothes. From 11 YEARS OLD. Based on my sex not gender. Thank fuck for older feminists, like my mother and her friends. Who had also been treated shamefully both as girls and women.

It's like going into a factory and saying, 'don't unionise, you have nothing in common with the coal miners or even those people in the paint section'. The WORKERS united, like WOMEN united. You get more done as a class.

"Why do you want to remove the word woman?"

It is a thought experiment. For two reasons:

1. To try and get out of these endless argument about what a woman is and isn't.

1. To shore up rights where it matters. Like, concede women's rights bit keep reproductive rights. As an example. Given that reproduction is real, it can't be argued away.

I just think though that there's no harm in articulating very clearly what we mean by woman.

Woman means adult human female. [Girl means infantile, juvenile, adolescent female.]

[Female is the physical life form that supplies the large gamete for the purpose of sexual reproduction of any species.]

That is it. There is nothing more.

The redefinition of 'woman' to mean any man who fancies it means fundamentally undermining and often effectively removing the majority of the legislative and cultural advances that women have made over the last hundred years or so. And yes, that includes the right to bodily privacy from male people when using the toilet.

Like, concede women's rights bit keep reproductive rights. As an example. Given that reproduction is real, it can't be argued away.

Have a read of this, Maniak:

wordpresscom4320.wordpress.com/2019/07/25/womens-rights/

Have a read of this, too:

www.museumoflondon.org.uk/discover/womens-right-work-toilet-bathroom-victorian-london-wwi-factory-protest

Snd this:

www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/History-of-Womens-Public-Toilets-in-Britain/

"It's like going into a factory and saying, 'don't unionise, you have nothing in common with the coal miners or even those people in the paint section'. The WORKERS united, like WOMEN united. You get more done as a class."

I'm all for that. Except that I'm not sure it's working lately. I think the trans stuff is destroying us. Not only splitting up feminism into camps but distracting us.

It's not about toilets.

It's about power.

The removal of single sex toilets from women is a symptom of loss of woman's power and autonomy that the trans issue produces. There are many more examples though. Focusing only on toilets is like eavesdropping on a conversation and missing the entire point of the conversation.

I do because that there is a far right agenda along trans lines though, because its a recognition that's its a fracture line in liberal and left politics, because it exposes where hypocrisy and double standards are in liberalism and leftist agendas at the moment.

That's the point though. The left and liberal circles are leaving themselves exposed because this will be exploited for nefarious reasons.

That's not the fault of feminists. Indeed many feminists can see it for exactly what it is and are deeply uncomfortable with it.

Ultimately that's for the left and liberals to get off their arses, represent those they claim to and serve the interests of women.

Otherwise they cease to be there to serve the causes of women and to stand up for their rights and dignity. And cease to have any real purpose whatsoever.

At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention

Given feminist also have jobs, hobbies, caring responsibilities, housework, cook meals, commuting, ablutions, shopping and enjoy some leisure time. Spending 10% of their attention on trans stuff is quite a commitment.

I think the trans stuff is destroying us. Not only splitting up feminism into camps but distracting us.

On the contrary, if we don't defend the few rights that women currently have against the efforts of those men to destroy them, we have to fight the last 100 + years over again.

There is no way we are going to do that.

Currently, the UK Equality Act 2010 contains most of the protections we need the Exceptions written in Schedule 3, Schedule 9, Schedule 23, etc and their associated Explanatory Notes.

Women now need to campaign to ensure that all those Exceptions achieve mandatory status so that the process becomes opt-out rather than opt-in.

Maintaining existing women’s rights in law is not a distraction. It’s extremely vital work. I don’t really get posts that tell women how to spend their time and what on... and in what percentages like, wow.

If you remove 'woman' then what happens to these words?

mother
/ˈmʌðə/
noun
1. 1. 
a woman in relation to her child or children.

birth
/bəːθ/
noun
1. 1. 
the emergence of a baby or other young from the body of its mother; the start of life as a physically separate being.

wife
/wʌɪf/
noun
1. 1. 
a married woman considered in relation to her spouse.

sister
/ˈsɪstə/
noun
1. 1. 
a woman or girl in relation to other daughters and sons of her parents.

Or am I missing your point?

The removal of single sex toilets from women is a symptom of loss of woman's power and autonomy that the trans issue produces.

Indeed. It is the expression by men of their sense of entitlement to disregard a very basic boundary against our consent.

It is about men saying to women we can do whatever we like to you .. you women have no value except in so far as what we choose to do to you. You women only exist for the purpose of us men to do with as we choose.

This is the very expression of rape culture.