Dickpandering in feminism

[SwearyWhitehouse]

Is anyone else a bit nonplussed at this? Feminism is surely by women and for women. In order for it to have any hope of succeeding it must centre women and be women led. We keep saying that men cannot come into women’s spaces, even if they identify as women, yet we seem to be championing men who do the bare minimum or who speak over the top of talented, diligent, hardworking women and take all the credit. Who silence women using block lists or by muscling them out of groups for disagreeing with them or pointing out that theyre speaking for women rather than elevating our voices.

Why is Glinner, for example, being lauded for writing a piece on Challenor when women shared all that information months ago? He’s busy kicking women out of working groups whilst taking credit for their work. If he called himself a woman whilst doing this we’d have no truck with it.

Just because these men don’t claim womanhood doesn’t mean they’re not infiltrating women’s spaces. We need to pay attention.

Don’t mistake the battle for the war.

Yes.

Otherwise:

1. all of us women need to centre women more and stop fawning over men for lesser contributions than women make. They're not children, needing a petting. They're grown-up penis owners who are perfectly capable of bigging themselves up.

2. never have high expectations of man cos they all gonna bloke over you at some point. Save yourselves the disappointment.

3. can't do it without 'em. The ones joining in and trying to help are good chaps (except for their inevitable bloke-ing over you moments) and I, for one, welcome their contributions.

4. women have got to stop having arguments with each other because a penis got involved. We're not children either. We're responsible for ourselves. I, for one, won't be having any arguments with any other women because of the position they've taken over a man.

PS: Sweary, m'dear. Good to see you back here.

Gah - sorry Sweary - I just assumed someone had appropriated your name (it seems to happen a lot)
.
But I stand by my point - the repeated threads complaining about individuals is tedious and (imho) unhelpful.

sweary

Will ya write to my mp too? Cos ya know. We do nothing and others know everything 🙄🙄🙄

Numerous working groups' which I've not been invited to, what are they?

If you haven't been invited why would I tell you what they are and what we do?

There must be a reason if you haven't been invited......

Yes men do need to communicate with other men about GC issues. No-one said otherwise. The issue is them expecting to use the women already organising and campaigning to do so. And that when those women speak up about bad treatment some people are telling them to STFU for the sake of the cause. Often they’re told that by the same women who go off to pander to the dicks of the men causing the harm.

Women heading up campaigns and organising new ones are on this thread (I can see three such women from a brief skim of usernames) telling us that this is happening. And I’ve experienced it myself to a lesser extent.

If this gives you any pause for thought at all, I’d request that you consider giving careful thought before you provide financial or practical support to a man who wants his name to go on the label. Perhaps ask around first, women from different feminist groups, to find out what is going unsaid. Because there are a lot of women experiencing negative treatment by GC men who are too awed or embarrassed to speak out publicly about men. They’ll do so about GC women they encounter problems with but it can be harder to speak up about men.

You allowed a man into a working group and not some women on this thread! Shocking. I’m going to set up my own rival single sex working group to organise bringing down your patriarchal man including working group.

You allowed a man into a working group and not some women on this thread!

The whole thing sounds like jr high.

For those so concerned about the attention a couple of comedians are getting, feel free to come to the threads sharing women’s writing and help us spread their work:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3647426-The-Current-State-of-the-Women-s-Game-blog-by-Helen-Saxby?msgid=88821866#88821866

I really respect both Sweary and Glinner.

I'm sick of all this public in-fighting. It's fine to disagree, but it needs to be done respectfully. Can you imagine the glee Harrop and co feel when they see shit like this? It plays right into their hands.

This also, really important work:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3647348-The-fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex-Guardian-piece?pg=1&order=

What Lang said

And if we never have another thread like this ever again it’ll be too soon frankly

It's a really valid point. It's a shame that so many posters have gone full on snide attack rather than reflecting on it.

There is huge amounts of fawning over men who 'get it' - not just on here but across social media. And while I accept the argument that their voices are likely to be heard above ours, we all have a responsibility to keep pushing women's voices to ensure that we are not doing all the labour while they get the kudos.

That is the history of virtually every single successful political movement - the women do all the donkey work and the men take all the credit.

See how Storme DeLarverie has been written out of the Stonewall riots? That will happen here too unless we very consciously raise up women's voices.

We are living in a patriarchy which means that most of us unthinkingly value men's POV more than women's. It's uncomfortable but it's true.

Telling women who leave a simple thanks on a thread they’re fawning is fucking bullshit. I’ll praise whomever I want.

Oh please. You are not in the stonewall riots.

It was a couple of ridiculous closed groups that wrecked the original fwr board on here.

It’s probably many of the same people doing it again on twitter.

Don’t invite men into a closed group and then claim we are the ones pandering to them when you all fall out.

And when a woman and man privately disagree and he responds disrespectfully - let’s say by calling her names on social media. What then TerfTalk? I’ve seen that happen to prominent women who are then quickly told by other women to deal with it in private. They can’t. They’re blocked, whilst the campaigns or court cases they’re involved with, as well as their own reputations, are being attacked. Respect must go both ways and some of these men are not acting respectfully yet continue to be publicly thanked on sometimes a daily basis.

You are not in the stonewall riots.

The erosion of the rights of women and girls is just as serious as the discrimination towards LGB people that lead to the Stonewall riots. That’s what most of the people on this thread, if it is like most on FWR, are spending most of their free time and money and energy fighting to change. And it is entirely valid to discuss what is helping and what is hindering in that fight and to learn lessons from historical feminist battles.

You lot are hindering it with your childish infighting.

JessicaWakefieldSV

I get tat you're new here, but really telling sweary to. Go and do something useful?
Give yourself a wobble poppet

Seriously, could this get anymore childish?

Cor, it’s getting a bit needlessly flighty...

Or fighty!

Damn you autocucumber

You know what this movement needs more of? People who could start a fight in an empty room. We just don’t have enough of them.

IF someone thinks someone else is wrong, it should not matter that they are newer than the queen bee. They can state the8r mind based on what they see. Else it’s just a clique.