Dickpandering in feminism

[SwearyWhitehouse]

Is anyone else a bit nonplussed at this? Feminism is surely by women and for women. In order for it to have any hope of succeeding it must centre women and be women led. We keep saying that men cannot come into women’s spaces, even if they identify as women, yet we seem to be championing men who do the bare minimum or who speak over the top of talented, diligent, hardworking women and take all the credit. Who silence women using block lists or by muscling them out of groups for disagreeing with them or pointing out that theyre speaking for women rather than elevating our voices.

Why is Glinner, for example, being lauded for writing a piece on Challenor when women shared all that information months ago? He’s busy kicking women out of working groups whilst taking credit for their work. If he called himself a woman whilst doing this we’d have no truck with it.

Just because these men don’t claim womanhood doesn’t mean they’re not infiltrating women’s spaces. We need to pay attention.

So I’m not on Twitter ( one reason is the stupid arguments on there that cause this BS ) and what I could see was a few women accusing who I assume is Glinner for stealing women’s work?? and ‘soft blocking’ Dr Em, which according to her takes her out of some feminist groups. I don’t get that bit. I did see she shared a DM with some parts blacked out, which I think is uncool tbh.

Yes I’m definitely nonplussed by the dick pandering. Sometimes also rather pissed off by it. And it’s not individual to one man - it would be an easy problem to combat if it were. There are loads of them who agree with the Gender Critical position - but that is all. They are not feminists because they can’t be, and many of them don’t even have basic understanding of feminism or sympathy for the wider aims.

They begin by elevating women’s voices in the GC debate because they don’t have the background knowledge to form their own arguments... which is fine, to some extent we all start there. The problem is when they get involved at a deeper level, discussing in private groups, attending events, running websites, writing articles, raising funds, actively campaigning. Because instead of just joining in to amplify/fund women, some decide that they have something important to campaign about and need a platform. If that took the form of their own platform, funded, set up and run by men, aimed at reaching their own peer groups, then brilliant. Some of them need to do that. (And be left to get on with it. Not thanked every two minutes for doing so.)

But at the moment they are being thanked for using what we have already set up as their platform (expecting a seat on a stage at an event, or to be hosted by a feminist website). Or thanked for expecting nameless women to fund and help set up campaigns or fundraisers which they front, or to write content for them, or to research for them, or provide links for them. The time consuming, boring stuff. Some of them when asked for links to feminists writing on the issues provide the websites of transwomen. Some of them choose the feminists they approve of and block many others. Lots of them block or ridicule feminists who ask questions or seek a response to an issue.
And we shift over for them, help them, and then thank them?
Not me. Not any more.

What are you going on about?

I've seen quite a few comments on social media, about things like the JY issue, where men are asking "what are the feminists doing about it" and I have seen Glinner tell them that women have been speaking up but we are either ignored or silenced. So he has made a point of saying perhaps you should try listening to women.

There are many many highly intelligent, articulate and talented women campaigning and publishing material to raise awareness about self ID concerns but they are, as we know, often ignored so high profile figures are useful for bringing attention to the cause.

I haven't seen anyone complain about high profile women who have spoken up receiving the same thanks as Glinner and others.

Women like Sharon Davies and Martina Navratilova have added their very valuable voices to the discussion by sharing their experiences but neither are experts in women's studies, yet we are very grateful for them raising the profile of feminist campaigns and no one says we shouldn't express that gratitude.

For everyone who speaks up in this debate there is a cost so I think it's reasonable to acknowledge the support whoever offers it.

Are you being serious Goose?

Not in the least.

Stop putting your office politics above a major societal issue.

I heard he compared feminists to otters, and said their hats are too fancy.

What kind of man thinks he can tell otters what hats to wear!

There are many working groups on Twitter. If you're not in them you'd not know that. And yes, Dr em has been blocked by glinner kicking her out of those groups.

Goose, don't be a gf. It makes you look silly

'Numerous working groups' which I've not been invited to, what are they?
There's a special place in hell for the bystander. I admire the people who stand up to be counted for a principle when it doesn't directly affect them.
Quit the infighting and keep your eye's on the prize.

So glad you've written this OP. I've been wondering the same thing

I guess he's just using his platform to elevate the problem. And because he's got loads of followers then it has helped get the message out. Anyone GC with a big platform is helpful to peaktrans people.

But... but ... It's not Friday?

If Glinner is behaving like a dick in women's groups then I have every confidence that the women within those groups will hold him to account.
If we do not know the details of any issues there may be then it is best not to comment or speculate.

It’s the heat causing it. It’s melting train tracks and making people bicker over which secret group they are in.

They're high profile men with big audiences and, so far, not kicked off twitter so, yeah, right we do need their help and I for one am grateful for it. Yes, it is galling that men get heard and listened to when women who say and have been saying the same things get ignored or shut down but feminist brownie points aside what else do we gain by telling these particular men to fuck off with their 'glory-grabbing' ways and to keep their mouths shut about women's concerns because we're capable of doing it ourselves? Right now we gain fucking zilch except our noses cut off to spite our faces is what we gain.

It’s melting train tracks

I read that, wtf?! How does that happen and what do they do in countries that are always this hot??

More attempts at divide and rule?

I heard they are out painting the train tracks white. France is having the same problem.

The idea that women can win this battle all by ourselves is a non starter. We need all good people to stand up against it.

I am getting heartily sick of posters (often new posters) starting threads to take a tedious swipe at those who end up in the public eye - it's just playground tales and endless allegations. I don't know who you are OP or why you have posted this but unless it's constructive I'm just not interested. Go and write to some MPs or do something positive to support as countless women are doing.

They are not feminists because they can’t be, and many of them don’t even have basic understanding of feminism or sympathy for the wider aims

No one needs to be a feminist to decide if a particular issue is right or wrong. One applies one's own values and judgment to determine one's position.

Given how much arguing which goes on here and on other platforms about who is or isn't a feminist the word seems, to me, almost redundant and meaningless.

HOtter countries will have different design specs for their rail systems. Since it’s more expensive to design for a wider temperatures range , our tracks are designed for UK historic temperatures.

I have no problems with men being capable of understanding and agreeing with and supporting and being part of feminism.

I have no expectation that I will 100% agree with me and have no expectation that anyone is 100% perfect.

Some people do seem to want to emphasis any difference whereas I prefer to focus first on common ground and use that as a basis to discuss differences if and only if they turn out to be significant

"I don't know who you are OP or why you have posted this but unless it's constructive I'm just not interested. Go and write to some MPs or do something positive to support as countless women are doing."

Have you ever heard of ManFriday? Because that's your OP there

Don’t mistake the battle for the war.

There are ways men can fight this that women can’t. It’s not a coincidence that two of the prominent men who’ve helped move the dial are comedians. Ridicule is a very strong tactical weapon, and one that, in our world, women can’t use. When we do so, we only look like Mean Girls and create sympathy for the ridiculed.

Gervais’ ridicule gave permission for others to say the emperor had no clothes. It cut right through the, for some, confusing tangle about rights-aren’t-pie and sex-as-spectrum.

Much of this fight actually DOES need to be conducted amongst men, because it’s men who are shoving TW out of their spaces and into ours. There have to be men who confront those men and say: stop that.

I don't know who you are OP or why you have posted this but unless it's constructive I'm just not interested. Go and write to some MPs or do something positive to support as countless women are doing.

I’m howling. Yes Sweary you could be writing to an MP y’know.