Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

Roses you've missed my question in this fast moving thread so....

Sorry, but you're just reeling off numbers now. 76 kids in one school, another 10 in one year?
What schools? Thousands How do you know it's "thousands?" Have you counted them all in or something?

So, you've read the links to the numbers posted Roses, any comment?

"How is believing you were born in the wrong body any more crazy than believing a big guy in the sky created the world and watches everyone?"

At last, something you and I agree on, Earlywalker.

This is precisely how I view this - as a kind of quasi-religious belief. And (it may surprise you to know) if it helps someone conceptualise the world around them and make sense of their lived experience, I'm all for it.

I just don't think I can be compelled to share that belief.

And where quasi-religious beliefs start to have practical consequences for me and other women, I have the right to discuss them and object to the practical consequences being foisted upon me. So for example if a government is majority fundamentalist Christian, and wants to ban abortion, I have a right to protest against this. If a government is majority populated by people who believe TWAW and want to place male-bodied rapists into women's prisons, I have a right to protest against this.

No, I'm not reporting any posts insulting me or calling me a robot either. I think they should stand so there's evidence of what I'm talking about.

If you listen to how other people perceive you, you might learn something that will help you to develop your approach in a way that is conducive to more productive discussions in future.

What are the elements of a 'productive discussion' that lead you to agree that male rapists should go to a female prison?

It's always been like this. Pro-woman. Why would you find it weird?

It doesn’t feel pro-woman or that any proactive discussions are actually possible anymore though. It feels like questions or debate are shouted down with insults rather than actually discussed civilly. We’re all grown woman interested in intelligent discussion around a sensitive topic, so why has it become about discrediting everyone rather than actually opening yourselves up to critical thinking. I’m not asking anyone to change their mind, but I think it’s a shame people attempt to discredit and dismiss discussions rather than actually engage. We would all learn more that way if we stopped trying to ‘win’ and instead tried to educate ourselves and others.

But that’s not gonna happen so instead I’ll just accept you think I’m a man/troll/TRA/handmaiden/robot and I’ll hope that someone lurking actually listens and sees what’s really being said rather than what responders want to believe was said.

If you listen to how other people perceive you, you might learn something that will help you to develop your approach in a way that is conducive to more productive discussions in future

great Petrol, are you up for some feedback?

I'm not getting into debates with you about this subject. It's pointless. You are determined to hear something different to what I'm saying anyway, so I've got no interest in having those conversations with you.

interested in intelligent discussion around a sensitive topic

great - I have lots of questions about how you have arrived at your beliefs, will you answer them?

but I think it’s a shame people attempt to discredit and dismiss discussions rather than actually engage.

I agree which is why It's a bit difficult when people outright say "No, I'm not getting into a debate on this because it's pointless"

I’ll just accept you think I’m a man/troll/TRA/handmaiden/robot

Is that a general you or a you specific to me?

If the latter, please show me where I have called you any such thing or kindly withdraw this personal insult.

It doesn’t feel pro-woman or that any proactive discussions are actually possible anymore though.

So, Early, what would we need to be doing for you to feel that discussion is pro-woman and proactive. How would we need to be expressing ourselves?

Your last post at 11.08 is exactly the same as I feel, agree with all you said there @EarlyWalker

I've got no interest in having those conversations with you

what conversations do you want to have? you're still here, so there must be a reason?

And where quasi-religious beliefs start to have practical consequences for me and other women, I have the right to discuss them and object to the practical consequences being foisted upon me. So for example if a government is majority fundamentalist Christian, and wants to ban abortion, I have a right to protest against this. If a government is majority populated by people who believe TWAW and want to place male-bodied rapists into women's prisons, I have a right to protest against this

Absolutely, protest it, discuss it, disagree with it. My issue is not with that but with the term ‘peak trans’ Just as you would not say ‘peak muslim’ To discuss some extreme Muslim beliefs, why would you use peak trans?

You are determined to hear something different to what I'm saying anyway, so I've got no interest in having those conversations with you.

It's a little difficult when you make assertions about male rapists in female prisons. Perhaps you are now regretting that?

I agree which is why It's a bit difficult when people outright say "No, I'm not getting into a debate on this because it's pointless"
Well it kind of is as I've seen with my own eyes you LOL and backslap whenever somebody does try to engage in discussion and explain their view to you.

If you listen to how other people perceive you, you might learn something that will help you to develop your approach in a way that is conducive to more productive discussions in future.

Right back at you.

Womens rights are not up for debate.

I'm not getting into debates with you about this subject. It's pointless. You are determined to hear something different to what I'm saying anyway, so I've got no interest in having those conversations with you.

Then why are you here at all, Petrol, if you do not want to express your points of discussion?

Well it kind of is as I've seen with my own eyes you LOL and backslap whenever somebody does try to engage in discussion and explain their view to you.

I wasn't referring to you, roses.

Yes, my reason is to encourage a more moderate and open debating style in future so that we can actually engage with each other in future.

Generic ‘you’ lang, I don’t remember who says those things but it certainly happens on most threads.

Jac i just find it tiring when people don’t engage in what’s being said and instead say were all anti woman or whatever, it would be a lot more proactive if people just addressed things regarding the subject matter rather than trying to make anyone out to be a misogynist who isn’t in agreement, it’s just taking attention away from what’s actually being said - which isn’t helpful to anyone.

Yes, my reason is to encourage a more moderate and open debating style in future so that we can actually engage with each other in future.

Really? OK let's begin .. you can go first.

What point would you like to discuss, Petrol?

I still don't know why Petrol thinks it's OK for women to be locked up with male rapists. They keep hanging about here for reasons that aren't clear, but won't answer any questions. it's all very

personally if my beliefs left me unable or unwilling to answer very simple questions, I'd be rethinking them

You're not going to bait me into having a debate with you on the subject. I've already witnessed a typical response from you and I don't feel it's in either of our interests to go over it because it will just end in mud slinging. And not to mention, it's not the purpose of this thread.

great - I have lots of questions about how you have arrived at your beliefs, will you answer them?

Sure bernard, go ahead?