Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

So: it is a fact, a matter of public record, that a higher proportion of men in prison self describe as transwomen, than the proportion of men who are NOT in prison who self describe as transwomen.

Either:

a) men who describe themselves as transwomen are disproportionately more likely than other men to commit & be convicted of serious offences carrying custodial sentences

Or:

b) once men arrive in prison, they start self describing as transwomen considerably more frequently than men who have managed to stay out of prison.

tl;dr: a) transwomen tend to be more criminal or b) trans is a bandwagon jumped on by some prisoners.

I'm going with (b).

But either way, these chaps don't need to be in a women's prison. Separate trans facility, fine.

One wonders what is the point in meeting Roses' demand for sources to support assertions made when these are seemingly being ignored.

I am seriously coming to the conclusion that this discussion by Roses may be in less than good faith.

No one can give genuine reasons against using peak-TRA instead of peak-trans except they don’t want too

And how long before people start frothing because TRActivists are people, and reaching peak of a subset of people is problematic?

No. It is peak-trans-ideology.

Whether it is a rabid activist or a harmless HSTS living a quiet life, my answer is the same: this is rooted in sexism.

& I don't think it's relevant to discuss 'why wouldn't it be OK to say everyone's turning gay' because I don't think anyone has said everyone's turning gay.

Although if claiming to be gay got you favourable treatment in prison, I daresay people would.

There's a tradition in some countries of doing precisely that to avoid eg. military service, for example.

early

There is ample evidence that where facilities are mixed sex, women are at risk.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html%3Famp

There is zero evidence to suggest a diagnosis of gender dysphoria alters the male risk profile. In fact the Swedish study states the opposite.

I understand the desire to help men who you think are vulnerable. But it cannot be at the expense of women and girls' safety, privacy, or dignity.

No woman will know whether or not the man in front of her as a GRC or a penis, or if he is a risk. All it will do is create a culture where women cannot ask random men to leave their changing rooms etc.

Safeguarding does not work by lowering boundaries, increasing risk, and then punishing someone if they transgress.

It works by maintaining boundaries and reducing risk.

Men, as a cohort are at risk to women. Hence it's not just about safety, but privacy and dignity. Men with gender dysphoria are no different.

One wonders what is the point in meeting Roses' demand for sources to support assertions made when these are seemingly being ignored.

All I said was can you cite your source, I don't know myself why such a big deal is being made out of it
I am posting in good faith, if it's not good faith to ask questions though and not just blindly follow though then fair enough, not sure what I'm supposed to do about that.
Just take everything I read as gospel and not question anything? As that doesn't seem wise to me

So Rose after you have seen the sources, what do you think of the 76 children in a school in Brighton all identifying as trans?

God help those kids at group meetings. Teens are hormonal and confused at the best of times.

All I said was can you cite your source, I don't know myself why such a big deal is being made out of it

The point is Roses, that you seem to be ignoring those sources when they are sent to you because you subsequently raise issue or questions that have already been explained in those sources. If you had read those sources you would not need t raise the issue or question.

For example, the issue of the "bandwagon" is dealt with in that source about prisoners claiming transgender status.

So Rose after you have seen the sources, what do you think of the 76 children in a school in Brighton all identifying as trans?

Just gone to read it but the article linked about the 76 children is behind a paywall so can't access it.

Oh dear, shame.

In that case you can't have an opinion about it.

My opinion is it social contagion and Penny Mordant's investigation into ROGD cannot come quick enough and that the material taught to children in school needs urgent investigation.

Don't we get this behaviour from, MRAs? Coming in here, trying to get us to do their research for them?

Exactly the same.

Just gone to read it but the article linked about the 76 children is behind a paywall so can't access it.

Try this link instead:

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1051523/Gender-identity-Brighton-school-gender-fluid-education-transgender

Thanks Jacky will try that one instead

*Don't we get this behaviour from, MRAs? Coming in here, trying to get us to do their research for them?
Is that insinuating I'm an MRA? Cheers, not had that one for a while.
It's not "doing research for other people" it's called backing up your statistics you're putting out as fact, it's not a new thing

is that insinuating I'm an MRA? Cheers, not had that one for a while...It's not "doing research for other people" it's called backing up your statistics you're putting out as fact, it's not a new thing

Google can be your friend. If you choose to use it.

Pretending you are far too busy whilst simultaneously being on here 24/7 banging on about how mean women are to men. Yeah not heard that one before either.

Google can be your friend. If you choose to use it

I know, and I use google a lot. I've never pretended to be too busy, I just said where are your figures from.

Reading the thread im confused as to what roses is posting for?

@roses im actually interested to hear what argument you are putting forward as it seems like everyone else is saying they dont want a society where 1 in 50 biologically male prisoners gets put in a womens prison but i cant work out if you are agreeing/disagreeing and if so what alternative you are saying in response??

Accusations of being a men's rights activist is exactly the issue people have with debating.

Exactly petrol.
and to licklep 1 in 50 transwomen (or 1,500 in 90,000 I think the link said) doesn't seem too disproportianate and if they're segregated away in a separate wing like a pp said I don't see why that would be a problem - it's not like they're mixing and sharing cells?

I just said where are your figures from.

And in return you were given many links by many posters confirming the figures.

To which you are still pretending you have no sources for the figures.

I have been reading this thread and other threads with interest. I am very new to this debate, but not these issues. I grew up in a very left wing, very inclusive environment and supported people's rights to self determine their gender.

I have now looked at the evidence and data that has kindly been provided in this and many other threads, and I have changed my mind. I now support women only spaces. Biological women. I realise that women's (and especially lesbians') rights are under threat. The refusal of people such as Rose and Early to engage and answer questions has also greatly contributed to this change of heart.

Moreover, as someone with a past in athletics, I also firmly support the right of women to compete only against other biological women. That was, in fact, the first point that made me question my compete inclusion viewpoint.

I did not post before because many are expressing these beliefs in a much more articulate way, and also because I am concerned by how aggressive some of the posts are, but wanted to say that I have now moved on from a position of complete inclusion to a gender-critical position. You can say I have peak transed.

doesn't seem too disproportianate

....It's four times higher than outside prison....

Why is that?

And in return you were given many links by many posters confirming the figures.
I know. And I thanked them.

To which you are still pretending you have no sources for the figures
No I'm not
People have provided them and I've acknowledged that.

If its 1500 (havnt checked the figures just yet so taking that at face value) and they are segregated away and not mixing with female inmates then essentially your advocating for a seperate transgender woman prison? That sounds like a fair solution to me.

I have now looked at the evidence and data that has kindly been provided in this and many other threads, and I have changed my mind.
That's how I started out too. Reading threads on here.
With alarm on reading the threads concerned about self ID and thinking that self ID isn't a good idea (I still think that)
The difference is though that I don't just read links from here, MN, I read from everywhere.
Which is what made me change my mind.
Of course links on here from posters will be heavily skewed to one viewpoint/bias.
If you're not already, read outside of MN too.