Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

Statistically

I don't want "proof" - I just said if you're going to state statistics as facts but not where you got them from, it comes across as plucking them out of thin air

Elision. My question was: why would it matter to you if they were plucked out of thin air?

Surely the number is irrelevant. There's no such thing as a number too low or a number too high?

Do you have a number Rose?

Or, as I said, is it acceptance without exception based on self declaration, with the numbers self declaring being entirely irrelevant?

Which is it, Rose? A number? If so what number? Or irrelevant? So the number is immaterial?

Its peak trans for me I am afraid because I don't think TWAW and I dont believe humans can change sex. Doesn't mean I am not sympathetic to people in psychological pain and who dont feel comfortable with the rigid gender roles imposed on them (I agree with them and am not a stereotypical woman myself). I dont much care about the mouthy TRAs, who I think are anti-women malcontents with an agenda. I do care about the young people being fed lies about how transitioning will solve all their problems. That's the trans ideology as hence it was peak trans for me a long time ago.

You quoted the prison statistics up thread...
The ones that I was pointed to, where I said 1,500 in 90,000 doesn't sound as click baity as 1 in 50?
What on earth has that got to do with what was said though which was someone saying transwomen are more likely to commit offences than other men?

Transwomen are men? We seem to be getting somewhere
Biologically yes, I'm sure you knew really?
Doesn't mean they're not transwomen though.

Transwomen are men? We seem to be getting somewhere
Biologically yes, I'm sure you knew really?
Doesn't mean they're not transwomen though.

Yup. So transwomen are a subset of men. So they belong in male spaces. If that won't do, they need to organise third spaces. I'll support them.

They don't belong in female spaces.

Sorted.

My question was: why would it matter to you if they were plucked out of thin air?

Seriously? Of course it matters if numbers are plucked out of thin air as they could easily be made up with nothing to back it up with.

But this is the point, isn't it? There isn't a number of trans people in prisons you'll find acceptable. You don't want any. So it's irrelevant what percentage there is.

One expects a period of silence from you now then

Well, thats me told.

Fwiw, I'd have no problem moving to 'peak-TRA' rather than 'peak trans'. Sentiment would be the same. But happy to hear reasons against.

No one can give genuine reasons against using peak-TRA instead of peak-trans except they don’t want too, they can do what they want. Who cares who we offend? TWANW (funny how trans men are never mentioned isn’t it!) ... blah blah. People know exactly what they’re doing and exactly why they won’t stop using peak-trans, the faux naivety is obvious to anyone who doesn’t close their eyes to it.

So what do you think then Rose? Transwomen are more likely to commit crime, or prisoners are bandwagon jumping?

Seriously? Of course it matters if numbers are plucked out of thin air as they could easily be made up with nothing to back it up with.

Elision again. Let's assume they are made up, even though they aren't.

Why does it matter to you if 1%, 2%, 10% or 100% of male prisoners self declare as trans?

Why? It's either acceptance without exception or it's not.

The number doesn't matter to me. Like I say: one is too many. That's because I'm being consistent. I say people can't change sex. You say it doesn't matter because it's about the self declaration of gender identity.

So: why does the number matter to you, Rose?

Peak trans is objectively offensive.

Early, you wanted a discussion?

What's the answer to why does a male risk profile suddenly change after a diagnosis of gender dysphoria?

No one can give genuine reasons against using peak-TRA instead of peak-trans except they don’t want too, they can do what they want.

Early, I have already explained the meaning if Peak Trans.

It means reaching the point in thinking about transgenderist ideology when you realise it is all nonsense, that it all fantasy and has no basis in any measurable objective reality.

It is nothing to do with individual people, it is to do with the ideas that are expressed when referring to transgenderism by it s proponents and rejecting all those ideas. Peak Trans is when you reach that point of rejection of those ideas.

So what do you think then Rose? Transwomen are more likely to commit crime, or prisoners are bandwagon jumping?

What do I think?
question 1 - No, transwomen are not more likely to commit crime.

question 2 - You're the one who said transwomen are bandwagon jumping, not me. I don't agree.

What about my question, how is it OK to say transwomen are bandwagon jumpers but not to say everyone's turning gay nowadays?
Neither are acceptable, are they?

I don't agree that trans people are more likely to commit crimes either.

Also, we don't separate men from women for the sole reason that men are potentially dangerous. For example, women and children first. Nothing to do with potential violence.

What about my question, how is it OK to say transwomen are bandwagon jumpers but not to say everyone's turning gay nowadays?

The reference to the "bandwagon" was specifically about the prisoner issue. If you read the article that was linked for you earlier, one of the prison governors said as much, if I recall correctly.

question 2 - You're the one who said transwomen are bandwagon jumping, not me. I don't agree.

What about my question, how is it OK to say transwomen are bandwagon jumpers but not to say everyone's turning gay nowadays?
Neither are acceptable, are they?

So if transwomen don't commit more crime than the general male population, and prison inmates are not bandwagon jumping, how come there are four times more transwomen in prison, statistically than out of prison? What are they doing there?

Do you understand the question?

I didn’t say it did disappear, I asked where the proof of risk is?

I’m asking you to back up your point that transwoman are risk to woman in toilets? How many woman are attacked by men (as a class) in toilets? Not in general?

We can’t risk assessment every situation. But I would like to know what exactly the risk is to woman? In terms of statistics? I assume since you’re adamant it’s a big risk to woman, that there’s lots of evidence to back it up?

Why are you avoiding my question when I've answered what you just asked me?

I don't agree that trans people are more likely to commit crimes either.

Which demonstrates how men, any man, can claim to be transgender, and you, nor I, have any way of saying no they're not.

Because it's an unverifiable state of mind, which is immaterial in terms of what sex you are.

So are transpeople though? So surely peaktrans is pretty problematic too then?

Only if you are unable to distinguish between people and ideologies.

If you are insistent that "trans" may only ever apply to "people with transgender identities" then yes, you will see "peaktrans" as problematic.

The problem here is your inability to distinguish between separate but related concepts.

I am reminded very much of a person on a recent thread who was determined to used "female" as both a sex and a gender identity. A similar inability to acknowledge the issues resulted.

Also, we don't separate men from women for the sole reason that men are potentially dangerous. For example, women and children first. Nothing to do with potential violence.

So, Petrol, in your view, on what grounds are women and children separated from males?

Why are you avoiding my question when I've answered what you just asked me?

What this?

"What about my question, how is it OK to say transwomen are bandwagon jumpers but not to say everyone's turning gay nowadays?"

They are prison inmates jumping on a bandwagon. The article says so.

So if transwomen don't commit more crime than the general male population, and prison inmates are not bandwagon jumping, how come there are four times more transwomen in prison, statistically than out of prison? What are they doing there? Do you understand the question?

Okay, are you trying to confuse things now?
Why have you come out with this in response to this you quoted
question 2 - You're the one who said transwomen are bandwagon jumping, not me. I don't agree. What about my question, how is it OK to say transwomen are bandwagon jumpers but not to say everyone's turning gay nowadays? Neither are acceptable, are they?

How has that got anything to do with what you just said?
You're asking me if I understand the question, but you sure seem to be doing a good job of confusing things yourself!