Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

it is actually normal to cite sources instead of refusing to when someone asks

Indeed, Roses. If you care to scroll back up this thread you will see all the sources I have supplied to you, Early and Petrol so that you can inform yourselves with objective facts and relevant aspects of UK law.

1 in 50 prisoners say they are transgender

Have a look at the links in this thread, roses.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3633714-One-in-50-prisoners-identify-as-transexual

If only
You actively want to turn people away from being sympathetic and concerned about women's rights?
Why? I'm not sure you understand what I meant there for you to say that

Indeed, Roses. If you care to scroll back up this thread you will see all the sources I have supplied to you, Early and Petrol so that you can inform yourselves with objective facts and relevant aspects of UK law.

Thanks, and I will do

@RosesAndRaindrops

It comes down to this: are women a vulnerable group? Do they need their own spaces? Does letting anyone who says they feel like a woman into those spaces put women at risk?

If the answer to any of those questions is yes then there is a debate to be had.

You might have been reading both sides but you don’t seem to actually understand any of the ideas or evidence for the GC side. I’ll sum to up for you: penises in female spaces are a threat to women’s safety. Anyone with a penis needs to go somewhere else.

This "peak Muslim" idea - yes, that's pretty problematic. Because Muslims are people.

Peak Islam, though? I'm not ashamed to admit I reached that a long time ago.

I reached peak with a lot of ideologies a long time ago. It usually happens when I spot the misogyny inherent to the ideology.

From the link
The figure, the first by the watchdog, suggests there are up to 1,500 transgender inmates among the 90,000
OK, to me that doesn't sound disproportionally large - 1,500 in 90,000?
Maybe the newspaper found going for a 1 in 50 slant more click baity and interest inducing in their piece to get people "going."
I always find it interesting how language can be manipulated to support a viewpoint

1 in 50 prisoners say they are transgender

Why do you need proof or citatations, Rose?

Acceptance without exception based on self declaration. That's the Stonewall position and the one you appear to be arguing for?

Why does it then matter how many prisoners - or anyone in society - make such a self declaration? Why do you want "proof"? It's either acceptance without exception on the basis of self declaration or it's not.

Why do you need or want proof of numbers? Why does it matter to you? I'll be frank: it doesn't matter to me either. One male rapist in a women's prison is one too many. Heck, one male in a women's prison is one too many.

I can't work out why you're fixated on seeing proof that it's any particular number. Is there a number that would change your mind if it was too high? If so, what number?

This "peak Muslim" idea - yes, that's pretty problematic. Because Muslims are people

So are transpeople though? So surely peaktrans is pretty problematic too then?

I always find it interesting how language can be manipulated to support a viewpoint

What are you talking about?

You challenged whether or not there were men jumping on a bandwagon.

Disregarding the traveller community, this is four times the level of transgenderism in the general population.

So either transwomen are far more likely to commit crime than men in general, or men are jumping on the bandwagon.

Either way, they get the possibility of being transferred to a female prison. The female estate will collapse under the weight of the number of inmates.

Why does it then matter how many prisoners - or anyone in society - make such a self declaration? Why do you want "proof"?

I don't want "proof" - I just said if you're going to state statistics as facts but not where you got them from, it comes across as plucking them out of thin air.
Others have agreed with me on the thread, about citing sources

So surely peaktrans is pretty problematic too then?

Peak Trans does not refer to people it refers to transgenderist ideology.

This was explained earlier in this thread, if you care to scroll up.

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/3316509/transgender-prisoner-tiffany-scott-riot/

The difficulty with placing any prisoner who says they want to go in with the women, in with the women, is that the female prison population and the facilities for them are v different to the men's.

Women in prison are far less likely to be in for violent crime and way less likely to be in for sex offences.
I don't think there are any of the sort of prisons that are for the most violent offenders, in Scotland, at all.
Women tend to be smaller and not as strong as men.
Pregnant women are incarcerated they have specific additional vulnerability.
Women can become pregnant, there has never been any comment from those who wish to lock people with functional dicks in with women on how that will work. No one but no one wants women getting pregnant while they are in prison.

My only conclusion about those who say they are aok with any man who says I'm a woman being transferred to the women's estate is that they either see women in prison as subhuman, or actively want to see them harmed.

It's very distressing. To be honest.

What are you talking about?
The article from the newspaper I was quoting from I was linked to above.

I don't know if there are any prisons for the most dangerous in England.

Tiffany Scott is in prison in Scotland.

So either transwomen are far more likely to commit crime than men in general, or men are jumping on the bandwagon.

So which is it, Rose?

Fwiw, I'd have no problem moving to 'peak-TRA' rather than 'peak trans'. Sentiment would be the same. But happy to hear reasons against.

I just said if you're going to state statistics as facts but not where you got them from, it comes across as plucking them out of thin air.

I think the assumption was made, since you have chosen to involve yourself in this discussion here, that you were already cognisant of some of the very basic facts.

This assumption was clearly inaccurate since you seem to have zero knowledge about any of it. This is why I provide my sources for you, Early and Petrol.

Having zero knowledge about any of the facts one has to assume you are here to learn. Otherwise it could be assumed that you are here in less than good faith perhaps?

So either transwomen are far more likely to commit crime than men in general, or men are jumping on the bandwagon.So which is it, Rose?

Why are you conflating totally different things on the thread?

You're the one who said transwomen are jumping on the bandwagon
I don't agree they're all bandwagon jumpers, to me that's just like somebody saying everybody wants to be gay nowadays

Nowhere have I said (or indeed anyone I don't think?) that transwomen are more likely to commit crime than other men (seriously, no-one has said that, apologies if they have though)

Having zero knowledge about any of the facts one has to assume you are here to learn
I am here to learn, always have been. I've never professed to automatically know everything.

I'd have no problem moving to 'peak-TRA' rather than 'peak trans'. Sentiment would be the same. But happy to hear reasons against.

One argument against this is that peak trans is not about transactivists it is about transgenderist ideology.

Peak Trans refers to the point that is reached in thinking about transgenderist ideology when you realise it is all based on fantasy and has no basis in any measurable objective reality.

Nowhere have I said (or indeed anyone I don't think?) that transwomen are more likely to commit crime than other men (seriously, no-one has said that, apologies if they have though)

You quoted the prison statistics up thread....

Nowhere have I said (or indeed anyone I don't think?) that transwomen are more likely to commit crime than other men (seriously, no-one has said that, apologies if they have though)

Transwomen are men? We seem to be getting somewhere.

Although if you just looked at the % of incarcerated TW who are sex offenders versus the % of the general male prison population who are sex offenders, it does seem that TW are disproportionately likely to be sex offenders.

Why this might be is of course a 'chicken & egg' discussion - individuals who identify as trans more likely to commit sexual offences OR sex offenders more likely to perceive a benefit to self IDing as trans.

I am here to learn, always have been.

That is good, Roses.

One expects a period of silence from you now then, while you read all the sources that have been provided throughout this thread.

Rose, how come there are four times as many transwomen in prison as there are out of prison?