Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

It's not really for you to disagree with how other people feel though, is it?

I don't disagree that there are some men who feel uncomfortable with their body.

I absolutely do disagree that this means that they are a woman and that therefore they should have access to all women's rights and protections.

This isn't rocket science really is it?

jacky that is an incredibly bias source, do you think people are that stupid to blindly follow ‘facts’ as posted on a site with an obvious agenda?

Do you know, I was in the middle of writing a post basically saying exactly the same as you just did! So I've just deleted and just going to say "this" again are you me, agree with everything you're saying lol
My post was basically saying well, that's an opinion piece, not really an article or study as such, and therefore heavily biased to the author and their viewpoint.

Well, not a man or a woman. But somebody who should be treated like a woman in every respect. I genuinely don't have a problem with doing that. I have done it. It's no trouble for me at all. I'd feel deeply uncomfortable with doing any differently

I agree that they should be treated with the same degree of respect and humanity as everyone else.

The two UK laws that apply to transitioners, the Gender Recognition Act 2004 and the Equality Act 2010 are very explicit about acknowledging that the sex of such people remains their natural sex. Both laws make provision for keeping males separate from females in many circumstances, for the safety, wellbeing, dignity of females.

where is the evidence that transwoman with a GRA put woman at risk in a bathroom?

98% of sexual offences are carried out by males. Fact.

A transwoman with a GRC is male. Humans cannot change sex. Fact.

What is it exactly that you believe takes a transwoman with a GRC (or any transwoman for that matter) out of the high risk category of male and into the much lower risk category of female?

It's not an opinion piece. It's written by Ray Blanchard and Michael Bailey.

Ray Blanchard received his A.B. in psychology from the University of Pennsylvania in 1967 and his Ph.D. from the University of Illinois in 1973. He was the psychologist in the Adult Gender Identity Clinic of Toronto’s Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH) from 1980–1995 and the Head of CAMH’s Clinical Sexology Services from 1995–2010.

Blanchard has studied transgenderism for 30 years and has published numerous peer-reviewed studies.

jacky that is an incredibly bias source, do you think people are that stupid to blindly follow ‘facts’ as posted on a site with an obvious agenda?

Did you read who are the authors of that analysis?

Two of the world's leading experts in the field of working with transitioners.

That analysis is included in that site because it is written for lay people who are parents of children who claim to want to transition.

It's written by Ray Blanchard and Michael Bailey
So? Doesn't mean it can't be biased towards a certain viewpoint.

There’s more woman in prison for sexual offences than transwoman, so I’m asking what risk assessment you have carried out to say they are more risk to woman? The way it’s said as fact on here, I’d have thought there was a lot of concrete evidence, no?

Thank you Datun

So? Doesn't mean it can't be biased towards a certain viewpoint.

Peer reviewed studies tend to eliminate bias.

If you can come up with anyone on the planet with more expertise, I'll be willing to see what they say, too.

So? Doesn't mean it can't be biased towards a certain viewpoint.

If you read it you will learn that it is not biased in any way; it is very factual. It explains all the different forms that GD can and does take.

I think everyone's viewpoint counts, but unfortunately we don't all agree. And that's why I think it's really vital that we can all discuss possible solutions with an open mind. Because this is actually a debate without a right or wrong answer.

There’s more woman in prison for sexual offences than transwoman, so I’m asking what risk assessment you have carried out to say they are more risk to woman? The way it’s said as fact on here, I’d have thought there was a lot of concrete evidence, no?

As they are male the onus is on you to prove the risk to women is less than any other member of the male sex class. Why would it be?

There’s more woman in prison for sexual offences than transwoman, so I’m asking what risk assessment you have carried out to say they are more risk to woman?

No there isn't.

There are 120 women in prison for sex offences. Currently 1 in 50 men are identifying as trans in prison.

Even if you think they are bandwagon jumpers, as I do, the 120 transwomen in prison identified by the MOJ is from a cohort of, how many? 5000? The 120 women is from a cohort of tens of millions.

Even if you think they are bandwagon jumpers, as I do
You think transpeople are bandwagon jumpers? Why?
How is that any different to the statement I heard the other week that basically went "everyone wants or seems to be gay nowadays?"
It's exactly the same, it's not acceptable to say about gays, so why is about trans?

Oh my post has disappeared!

My question was to early.

Your compromise is to allow men with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and a certificate to be treated as women.

My question is why do you think they have a different risk profile? What is it that has happened? Where have they acquired a female risk profile and female attributes?

Because this is actually a debate without a right or wrong answer.

This is incorrect actually. UK law is very explicit about the answer.

Read Schedule 3 of the Equality Act 2010 and its associated Explanatory Notes as a starting point;

Part 7: Separate, single and concessionary services, etc

section 26 separate services for the sexes

section 27 single sex services

section 28 gender reassignment

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3

Even if you think they are bandwagon jumpers, as I do
You think transpeople are bandwagon jumpers? Why?

Because we have a prisoner authorities telling us! One in 50 men in prison is saying they are now trans. That rises to 1 in 10 if they're from the traveller community.

It's written by Ray Blanchard and Michael Bailey

Michael Bailey is Professor of Psychology at Northwestern University. His book The Man Who Would Be Queen provides a readable scientific account of two kinds of gender dysphoria among natal males, and is available as a free download here.

faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf

I hadn't realised his book was available online. I read in Alice Dreger's book Galileo's Middle Finger about the furore following the publication of Bailey's book.

You could argue that everyone in this debate is biased, so the best way to proceed is to read both sides and make your own mind up. That's what I do - in all areas, not just this one. Once you start dismissing one side as biased and refusing to even read what they have to say, it makes you look bigoted.

One in 50 prisoners identifies as transgender amid concerns inmates are attempting to secure prison perks

More than four times the general population. You really should read a newspaper roses.

Because we have a prisoner authorities telling us! One in 50 men in prison is saying they are now trans. That rises to 1 in 10 if they're from the traveller community
OK, sorry but you're doing it again, just throwing out numbers with nothing backing up your claims.
Just "they're bandwagon jumpers" and "all these people are transitioning"
Do you have a source or are we just supposed to blindly accept what you're saying and panic?

so I’m asking what risk assessment you have carried out to say they are more risk to woman?

They belong to the sex class of male, which carried out sexual crime at a much much higher rate. I have asked you to tell me what it is that takes a transwoman out of that high risk class.

Plus, we are talking percentages here, not actual numbers aren't we? Even just Karen White on their own would take the percentage of transwoman sexual offenders higher than female sexual offenders, when looking at the population pool number they are coming from. And we know that Karen White definitely is not alone.

I realise that this thread has moved on - but are people aware of the doxxing threat on the AIBU thread?
People who want to ruin women's lives because those women believe in biology and don't want to use coerced speech.
Unfuckingbelievable.

Rose please do your own homework.

You're desperately uninformed, and are desperate for people to waste their time googling for you.

You could argue that everyone in this debate is biased, so the best way to proceed is to read both sides and make your own mind up. That's what I do - in all areas, not just this one
That's what I do too, read both sides. Always have