Peak Transing

[Apollo440]

This thread on AIBU has been joined by some aggressive TRAs who are doing sterling work peak transing the more delicate areas of mumsnet.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3634784-to-not-want-to-sign-off-my-emails-with-preferred-pronouns

Real TWAW No debate or your c*nts type. Carry on I say!

Firstly I don’t agree with self ID. I believe TW with GRCs should be able to use woman’s toilets and changing rooms with cubicles.

So what criteria do you see necessary to get a GRC?

No I do not think TW should go to woman’s prisons but their should be specific wings within woman’s prisons for transwoman that are segregated

How about specific wings in men's prisons instead?

No I do not think TW should go to woman’s prisons but their should be specific wings within woman’s prisons for transwoman that are segregated.
*
Earlywalker* why should they be segregated within a women's prison rather than a men's prison?

Diagnosis of Gender dysphoria, had it planning to have surgery, lived as your acquired gender for atleast 2 years and plan too for the rest of your life.

I'm afraid I don't agree that trans people remain their former gender. So I can't comfortably witness a trans woman being sent to use the men's toilet. I think that would be potentially distressing for that person. I would much rather have them in with me where they felt comfortable and like they were in the appropriate space, if a third option wasn't available.

I don't believe that trans people physically transmute into another gender. But I also don't believe that it's an appropriate or correct description to say that they remain their former gender. A trans woman is clearly not a man.

Diagnosis of Gender dysphoria, had it planning to have surgery, lived as your acquired gender for atleast 2 years and plan too for the rest of your life.

Okay. So what is the difference between a man who does that, and a man who doesn't, in terms of risk? And are you saying they need to have their penis removed in the surgery?

Does it matter which prison? Separate men’s or woman’s. Those on separate wings don’t interact with those on other wings. It’s just a shared site.

So why say women's?

Sex, petrol, sex.

Had or planning to have surgery I meant!

The difference is that it takes away the risk of a predator just jumping on the self ID wagon to target vulnerable people.

PetrolBastard

You think your words make sense, but when you analyse them, they don't.

You have to define your terms otherwise it's meaningless. Gender is a set of stereotypical expectations imposed by society. Even trans organisations will tell you that. Nowhere does it say it's an innate sense of whether you are male or female. That's a made up thing by transactivists.

So because a man likes presenting as a woman, why should we segregate on that basis? What are you accommodating, exactly?

Can I ask if anyone knows what this means in a job application?

All offers of employment at Intercom are subject to a satisfactory enhanced DBS (police) check, but we do not discriminate on grounds of irrelevant criminal convictions or convictions for offences arising solely by reason of the employee’s homosexuality which would not be considered an offence of heterosexuals.

Sorry I know off topic but I have limited experience, and genuinely don’t know what offences you can be convicted of because you are homosexual . Who is it who would usually be filtered out of the application process who won’t be???

A trans woman is clearly not a man.

Given they are not a woman either, what are they?

They remain the male sex and do not become female sex.

UK law defines thus:

man = a male of any age
woman = a female of any age.

Equality Act 2010, section 212:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/212

The difference is that it takes away the risk of a predator just jumping on the self ID wagon to target vulnerable people.

It doesn't take away the risk of them being a predator, though.

I agree, it doesn't matter which prison they are in if they are segregated. Plus, if someone identifies as a woman and the idea is to rehabilitate them, they should be in the appropriate space for that.

And it doesn't affect the women who don't want to be around men.

I'm afraid I don't agree that trans people remain their former gender

"Remain" their former "gender"? At what point do they become their new "gender", and what does it have to do with their sex?

if someone identifies as a woman and the idea is to rehabilitate them, they should be in the appropriate space for that.

Why?

The rehabilitation relates to the crime they committed, surely?

I don't think we should be putting trans people into the general population of the prison to which they don't identify as a gender, because I think that's cruel.

We have traditionally segregated on the basis of sex (because male and female bodies are different). Can you explain why you think this is cruel?

I don't agree with applying a strict binary. And it's obviously not working, because otherwise we'd have had this all wrapped up yonks ago. It's not possible to lump everybody into two groups in this instance. There has to be some compromise.

Roses and Petrol. We know you would love for women to stop talking about issues that affect us. You have both used typical TRA tactics of trying to guilt people into silence.
I wouldn't "love for women to stop talking" at all and neither have I said anything of the sort.
I'm a woman myself and totally get you want to talk about any concerns, why would I want to silence you?
Kind of ironic/hypocritical really when posters on here try to shut down other women by insulting them, patronising them (presumably in the hope they'll go away?) and come out with stuff like "off you go then" "why are you still here?" etc

Has a rapist ever been successfully rehabilitated? Genuine question. I'll google it later if no one knows as am off to the library with ds who is 4 and has understood since age 3 that only boys and men have a penis.

I would have thought it statistically likely that prisoners have been rehabilitated successfully even after committing awful crimes.

I don't agree with applying a strict binary

Unfortunately, Petrol, it is nature that has created the strict binary. It's all to do with gametes, you see. There are only two gametes.

One type of body is created to supply the small gamete .. the male body.

Another type of body is created to supply the large gamete .. the female body.

That is nature and there is nothing any of us can do about it.

If you genuinely have an issue with trans woman being on a separate wing within a woman’s prison, segregated from woman there, then the issue is with you - not them.

It doesn't take away the risk of them being a predator, though.

No, neither does being born female. Yes, men commit more crimes but we cannot make spaces completely risk free. And if my daughter ever came out with the ‘ladies toilets is a space space’ bollox, I would put her straight. Given my experiences of toilets, I’d say you’re probably far more likely to be beaten up or robbed by a group of girls in there than you are to have a transwoman try and attack you.