Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

[sakura184]

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

I'd love to believe it's an urban myth and I'm sure it happens less these days but I've heard a lot about doctors inducing women at a time that's convenient for them, that they bemoan the fact most labors naturally begin in the middle of the night.
The induction is one of the medical interventions that leads to the cascade of intervention because the contractions are closer together making the pain less manageable meaning an epidural is more likely to be requested, thereby slowing down the labour, often leading to the inevitable c section

I think anyone who has read Sylvia Plath's The Bell Jar has an idea of what birth must be like in America. Pubes shaved, enema, and stirrups, is what she saw. Horrifying. Hope it's changed

Absolutely it should be offered where feasible as an alternative Sakura! Without a doubt.

The idea that sections are what's causing maternal mortality doesn't stand up to analysis. Hopefully we all know that the countries with the worst maternal mortality rates have very low CS rates because poor, but even looking only at more economically developed societies, this claim just does not hold.

For example, Poland has the joint best maternal mortality rates in the world, 3 in 100,000, and a slightly higher CS rate than the US. Over a third of Italian births are CS and they have the joint second best at 4 in 100,000. There isn't even the correlation to make this claim, much less the ability to establish causation.

I haven't read all of this, but I did have a high-risk pregnancy and birth (identical twins sharing a placenta and I have a blood condition). During the birth I had three female midwives (one for each of us) a male anaesthetist, his female assistant, a female consultant and two male paediatricians in the room. Every single male stayed above my head. Even the paediatricians waited for a midwife to bring them a baby for the checks.

Nothing was done without my consent, everybody was introduced to me and it was explained why they were necessary and all in all I felt respected. This is all despite the fact that it all happened far faster than they expected it to and they were worried about the risk of fast labour to the babies.

It can be respectful and while I had originally opted for vit K to be done by drops over the course of I think a week (it's been 7 years, I'm not 100% sure of the time line) it was calmly explained that it's not recommended after such a quick labour I agreed for them to have the injections. When you feel respected you are more likely to listen to medical advice, had my labour gone differently I may have dug my heels in, if only to keep control of something.

HorridHenrysNits

but we do know that highly medicalized births, and c sections, are not saving lives like the spin tells us they are.
Maybe the hospitals are dirty, maybe the diets are crap, maybe the aftercare is poor. You wouldn't expect a country like the US with a very medicalized system to rank 42nd in the world ( last time I looked) for maternal mortality

How do we know that? The whole thing seems far too complex for such generalisations to me.

I'm also not sure why you're so confident that a country with so many women who are obese, who receive no/inadequate antenatal care because of structural barriers even when they're entitled to it, and where those with pre existing conditions often haven't been properly treated pre-conception should be higher than that. I mean, why? Are you even attempting to quantify any of these factors? If so, how? Do you know that even though the US is a rich country, its horribly unequal? What impact might that have?

I'd go to the wall for a woman's right to give birth outside a hospital if she wants, no reason needed other than that's her preference. Safer or not. But these kind of lazy assumptions you're indulging in do nothing to help women.

You make some good points @HorridHenrysNits . There are too many variables to unequivocally say that c sections are the reason so many American women are dying in childbirth.

I do think that the risks of c sections are downplayed and I'm sure it still stands that there is a link between c sections and maternal death. I will have to check that

What is without doubt a problem is the cascade of medical intervention which is unnecessary in healthy and normal pregnancies. Homebirth can avoid unnecessary episiotomies and c sections by trigger happy doctors

And of course the main point of this thread, which is that hospitals can be rife for abuse of women

The birthing process generally is ripe for abuse of women unfortunately.

she recalled them laughing at the state of their pubic hair. Inglourious - this bought back memories of hearing 2 midwives taking the piss out of me when I shat myself, after having a 3rd degree tear with dd1. The aftercare and culture on that particular ward was appalling.

An alternative would be female led women only birth centers which should be freely available for those women who want them ....and female led gynaecological care? This could get pricey!

When I needed specialist gynae care I wanted the best freaking Dr there was (in this instance that happened to be a man). When ds needed specialist genetics input I wanted the best geneticist there was (in this instance that happened to be a woman, leading an all woman team).

HorridHenry you are spot on, the op has a very strange view of safe child birth.

I don’t think men are taking the best jobs.. of women don’t enter the training for the role now I don’t think banning men is a good thing. We need more people in the profession, not less.

It's just not correct that hospital births are better for an otherwise healthy pregnancy. The cascade of intervention can cause problems which lead to c section and countries with a high c section rate have a high maternal death rate due to the c sections.

You are spouting some very misleading and incorrect stuff here.

It's simply not that simple.

I get very frustrated when people do this. They miss the entire point.

This could get pricey!

Ikr we need money for wars

I don’t think banning men is a good thing. We need more people in the profession, not less.

If it wasn't for the amazing male midwife who specialised in birth fear I'd have been stuffed.

He has been one of the leaders in the field on the subject.

He also now advocates for women's rights in child birth.

It's not incorrect, midwives have written a lot about it and I respect their work.

I'm very glad the term "cascade of intervention" was invented by them.

I haven't pulled this stuff out of my arse, I've read a lot of books about it

@RedToothBrush

I'm sorry I just can't even about that male midwife advocating women's rights in childbirth. I've seen too many spot on memes about feminist men

And no way is a male midwife a leader in the field of midwifery , he sounds like a professional mansplainer. There are plenty of female midwives out there who are leaders but not in name

Ugh there is probably nothing I hate more than a professional mansplainer ignoring all the women who have written books about his topic or often more likely stealing their ideas while the women themselves get overlooked

Homebirth is the safest choice

This is not what very good large scale research has shown.

It's shown Homebirth isn't unsafe. And it's potentially safest for low risk women who have given birth before.

I also echo the point about the Netherlands were Homebirth is very common but it has an infant mortality which is poor compared to other western European countries with a similar standard of health care.

Sakura take your bias and control it.

'he sounds like a professional mansplainer'

You've never met him!!! That's far from the case.

Honestly you very much sound like you have issues on this and the blinkers are most certainly down.

I've spent I do not know how long picking through data on childbirth because of my own birth fear which was off the scale.

One of the worst things about it all is people who spout off their opinions and state x is safest and have utterly no clue.

It's a deeply nuanced subject and there just isn't a 'safest option'. It's just not that simple.

It depends on a huge amount of factors and differs from country to country for a multitude of reasons.

Ikr we need money for wars

Well, I sort of thought a properly run NHS, better support for disabled people and an edication system that is fit for purpose, but if you think wars...fine.

Does your professional mansplainers extend to gynaecologists too? I guess with fertility Drs the man would get to see a male Dr and the woman a woman?

Bizarre.

That is your biased opinion

All opinion is biased. By its very nature.

The truth is that birthing can, as well as being a very intense experience, also be a very liberating and empowering experience for a woman. One that enforces confidence in ones self and in one's sexuality.

A positive birth experience is not just about " delivering a baby safely", but can also be a powerful life experience; one inherent to the 'female experience'.

It is sometimes difficult to state this, to celebrate this fact and this reality, because so many women experience birthing in altogether less positive ways.

As a Brit who just had a baby in the US, none of this could be further from the empowered, supportive experience I had.

I did have a female obstetrician, but she led an all male surgical team for my (medically necessary) c-section and they were nothing but kind and respectful.

Not every American's birth experience is the same - I'm sure some of them are horrific. - as are some NHS births- but it's not a given