Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

[sakura184]

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

Colorado Assault Survivor Investigated by DHS after Refusing Male Resident During Birth

This is the headline. It's not exactly accurate is it? Nor is the title of your thread.

@Durgasarrow

After a lot of thorough research I found that home birthing countries like the Netherlands have a much better maternal death rate than over medicalized countries like the US. The USA has an appalling maternal death rate, it ranks 42 in the world after some African countries because of its insistence on medicalizing all aspects of birth usually culminating in the very dangerous c section. Brazil also has a high c section rate and therefore a high maternal death rate

One of the biggest patriarchal lies I would like to shine a light on is that countries with highly medicalized births have a better maternal death rate.

It's quite phenomenal when you also think that the women in countries with highly medicalized births should be generally healthier, have enough to eat etc

My BIL is a nurse, he's gay not that it should matter, but medical staff are generally (saying this because outliers) very professional. Not sure how it works in the US, but here we file a birth plan. Ideally things would work out according to the plan, but life can get in the way.

During childbirth with DS1 I was having a complicated labour (public hospital) I had a group of medical students basically gazing at my internal anatomy. By this point I gave zero fucks because my priority was my baby to be delivered safely.

Teddybear45

I've been listening to women's birth stories for years. This one may have been fabricated But there are plenty others that aren't and women WILL keep telling their stories of how male residents and nurses mistreat them

I freebirthed a preemie twin in an NHS hospital toilet after I tried to get away from the prospect of male medical staff swarming into the room.

But yeah, that never happens.

DanaPhoenix

I'm sorry but this idea of not caring if you're being violated because you only care about your baby being delivered directly benefits those who believe that women are just breeding vessels . It's very true that a lot of male obgyns regard their job done if the baby is ok. But I'm a feminist, so I'm afraid I'm for the women

But yeah, that never happens.

Exactly. All the people on here nitpicking about the article are boring me to death

question for @GeorgeFayne after this comment
I can understand her desire not to have a male examine her. Under planned, calm, or normal circumstances, I strongly feel hospitals should honor this request. However, in an emergent situation, it's possible (especially in a semi-rural hospital as this appears to be) the male resident and attending were the only OB providers available.

so it's ok to re-traumatise someone in an already not-calm situation?

I hope you're never giving me medical care, sorry to say.

I get the impression that gynaecology in the US is more invasive than in the UK in general. Don't they tend to make you put your feet in stirrups for virtually everything?

Well you may think I was violated. I preferred to think that I was a teaching example of complications, which were actually due to a midwife's mistake, to help them to learn what to do.

SnuggyBuggy

I really dread to think. I know Ina May Gaskin talked about midwives visiting the USA from Europe who were appalled at the amount of 3rd Degree tears women had and that some of the tears had gone through to the rectum and this was practically unheard of in Europe.
They saw that this was because of the style and prevalence of episiotomy in the USA. Midwives had a general consensus that episiotomies created worse problems than natural tears because natural tears heal better but it's very hard for the body to heal a clean slice.
This was just one example of the over medicalization of birth in the US and subsequent increase of female suffering

DanaPhoenix

If you don't think you were violated then you weren't! Some women are totally cool with men being involved in their birth. A lot of other women definitely are not and these are the ones we're talking about here

A resident is a doctor, not a nurse. And it is relevant if there was no female doctor available at the time. Birth in US hospitals is very medicalized and doctor driven. I am sympathetic to her situation as an assault survivor, but considering the idealogical orientation of the website, I think there is more to this story that we are not being told.

SenecaFalls

Refer to my posts about nitpicking

I actually think it's worse if it's a doctor doing the boundary violating, because he has so much more power over the patient than a nurse.
People coming on here acting like it's ok to violate a patient if you're a doctor not just a lowly nurse have it arse backward

Sakura I understand that some women don't feel comfortable with men attending their birth. In a perfect world that shouldn't happen. But the reality is that hospitals the world over are poorly funded. There are times that the doctors or midwives requested may for whatever reason not be available. The priority should be the minimisation of trauma to the mother and the child. Sometimes, unfortunately, it just is not feasible.

This story completely lost all credibility for me after reading-

It is especially ironic that the same people who would accuse a woman of medical neglect for rejecting a vitamin K shot would not bat an eyelash if the same woman walked into the hospital at 33 weeks gestation for an abortion.

A lot of work needs to be done around the business of birth and giving women a voice, but the whole tone of this article makes it clear that either the writer or the website has an agenda.

I can’t imagine the arrogance it must take to insist that your premature baby is denied immediate medical attention until you give the ok (when the cord stopped pulsating).

I don't think that she was investigated for refusing the male HCP though - it was for a whole bundle of red flags waving.

I think lots of these things really do need to be best effort, and if they mean that much to you, then you need to make sure that you're somewhere where those female obgyns are going to be available. If you arrive at a small hospital (which is is, half the number of beds of my local, small town hospital) in an emergency situation, then there are going to be some things you'll need to compromise on. And if you haven't had full previous care, if you're refusing very standard precautions, then I actually think that the hospital would be negligent if they didn't refer you to social services to check that the child is going to be safe.

GrapefruitIsGross

I think the problem is the stats bear out the fact that medicalized births are more dangerous to women and also that hospitals are lacking in a lot of basic knowledge.

For example hospitals often have a policy of cutting the chord right away seemingly unaware of the benefits of keeping it intact. Also other simple stuff like putting the baby to the breast can reduce the risk of hemorrhages. Really simple stuff that has been categorically ignored in hospitals to the detriment of mothers.

Firstly a resident is a doctor not a nurse. Whilst personal preferences should be listened to it's simply not always possible to have a female dr in an emergency situation which this was. It's not a good situation for either party but refusing a trained professional on sex grounds is discrimination- at no point would she be alone with the St because in the us you have a nurse (not midwife) with you in addition to the dr or midwife, sometimes 2 or 3, I had my dd in the US it's very different to the U.K. where I had my other child

Refer to my posts about nitpicking

Refer to my post about the possibility of there being no female doctor available.

SenecaFalls

Your argument doesn't make sense to a feminist. All it tells me is that resources have gone into training a man who has taken a woman's job. A woman should be available to treat women in birth. Otherwise it's just men stealing women's work

Delivering a preemie is very different than a healthy, term baby. We whisk the preemies away immediately to ensure their vitals (especially breathing) are stable. Minutes lost here can result in damage to the brain or even death. Every second counts. Waiting for the cord to fully stop pulsating could have significantly threatened this infant, and I feel the mother was foolish to make this an issue.

Just want to point out that this is bullshit. Premature babies need the cord blood MORE than full term babies. There is massive amounts of research on it, delayed clamping in standard in most tertiary delivery units these days and we have equipment which allows resuscitation at the bedside while baby is still attached to the cord. Delayed cord clamping is good, evidenced based practice.

The article below is one of hundreds. Trusts are using the Lifestart Trolley. Google the work of Professor Andrew Weeks from Liverpool University. Delayed cord clamping in premature babies saves lives and improves outcomes. Absolutely no need to ‘whisk away’.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2013/apr/25/cutting-cord-babies-risk-nhs

For goodness sake this was a small hospital with one attending (consultant) and one resident (house dr) on shift not a major city obstetrics unit. There was only one dr (male) on the floor when I had my dd in the us, I had no complications so my midwife did everything but he popped his head around the door earlier so we had met in case he was needed, this was in a major city!

Absolutely Sakura, and with a normal, full term birth I’d completely agree with you that a more hands off approach is ideal in most cases.

But the reality is that with a pre-term birth in a hospital, you need to accept that there will be a degree of medicalisation. Your baby will need immediate care, and parts of that care might not line up with your idea of an ideal birth. Most women understand that despite maybe being disappointed that things didn’t go to plan- this lady seemed to disregard all medical advice with respect to a premature birth.