Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

[sakura184]

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

Sakura - again, stop lying.
Nobody has done or said anything of the sort.

I hope she finds some peace eventually

I do agree with that.

I hope she finds some peace eventually*

A woman who wants to be able to specify a female HCP is treated as though her request is so out there that there must be something very wrong with her and she is wished a sort of religious type prayer offering her peace

Sakura, people aren't referring to your desire to be allowed to specify a female HCP (that is already your right). It is your response to men within healthcare settings that treat women/children that is coming across as something quite unusual.

I would imagine that even if people did prefer a doctor of the same-sex to themselves they would not be too concerned with the idea that this might not be possible (for example in an emergency) and would instead prioritise skills of the HCP over their sex.

I also don't think that people who request a same-sex-as-themselves HCP are doing so because of a preoccupation with the sexual lives of their HCP or anxiety around whether or not the person is turned on by the procedure or whether they watch porn in their spare time. That is not a normal conclusion to draw regardless of whether you have a man or a woman caring for you.

If you have encountered misogyny, or sexism in the medical community, as many women have, you may well want an all female environment, particularly for anything intimate. (Or even if you haven't.)

It's not unusual !

But why did she not make any arrangements during the pregnancy to ensure that she would have appropriate care in an emergency? Then in the emergency why would she refuse the treatment offered (not just the VE) that would allow an assessment of her and her baby's health.

From what she said, she had wanted an unassisted home birth, as is her right - and attended hospital only when her waters broke at 33wks. She may have wanted an unassisted birth as far as possible in the hospital, with the baby being able to be checked over in the hospital/given care for prematurity immediately after the birth.

I'm not her - and I doubt I would have made the same decisions as her - but they are her decisions to make, and I stand by her right to make them.

I hope she finds some peace eventually

Agree with this also. Men terrify me and it’s a learning curve to not allow that to affect everyday life.

A woman who wants to be able to specify a female HCP is treated as though her request is so out there that there must be something very wrong with her and she is wished a sort of religious type prayer offering her peace

That’s just not true.

I do feel there is a fair bit of misogyny in the medical profession - as a pp said, it was dominated by men for an awfully long time - and quite an enduring attitude that women are unreliable, or unable to make decisions for themselves. Both in the medical profession, and in the wider world, come to that.

ZebrasAreBras She could have an unassisted home birth while also preparing for an emergency as much as one can. I planned a home birth, still understood that if things didn’t go well (they didn’t, I needed induced) a hospital birth would be needed and any preferences should have been noted at any point before she went into labour.

I'm thinking that her plan for an emergency was to attend hospital, Aargghhh, which she did. Doesn't mean she has to consent to any or all medical interventions suggested by the medical staff, though.

Datun, yes but it's not normal to be thinking about whether or not your doctor has a fetish and is doing this job for access to women and is porn obsessed and evil...that's just a weird thing to even think about.

Genuinely do you walk along the street and wonder if every male you see is a secret porn-obsessed rapist?

That just seems like an unusual way of living life. There is reasonable caution and responding to actual risk but genuinely worrying about whether normal people just doing their job are secretly getting off on it is not a reasonable reaction.

you may well want an all female environment, particularly for anything intimate.
I don't think a single person in this thread has said that the ok, or any woman shouldn't have the right to request all female hcps.

In my emergency situation, there was no way I could have planned ahead, I went from collapsing at work in a puddle of blood, to being ambulances to a hospital 100+ miles away, whilst preparations were made for emergency brain and lung scans, internal examinations and possibly surgery, depending on the result of the scans. My internal was done by a male gynaecologist, I was asked if this was ok, and was told there would be female nurses present. This was ok with me, but if I had not wanted a man, I would have had to wait until a female consultant gynaecologists with an oncology specialism became available , which in these circumstances I guess I wouldn't really want to do.

Do people on this thread think women should be treated like criminals (referral to social services, police called etc) because they want an unassisted birth, or refuse a medical intervention?

Because that's what can happen - has happened - and it is counter to a woman's right to decide for themselves how they would like to give birth, counter to the GMC's guidelines, and counter to the highly legally regarded (as determined in existing case law) concept of patient autonomy.

*I hope she finds some peace eventually

Agree with this also. Men terrify me and it’s a learning curve to not allow that to affect everyday life.*

Apart from the bizarre Christian connotations behind "wishing me peace" I want to mention that one thing feminists noticed, and took a stand against, was that women who had escaped domestic violence were being taught in therapy to trust men again.

Why?

Why are we teaching women, who have had near death experiences at the hands of intimate partners, to trust men again, so that they go on to have another intimate relationship with a man? When we know the evidence tells us that a woman is most likely to be hurt raped or killed by an intimate partner.

Who does it serve to teach traumatized women that their instincts are, in fact, wrong think, and these thoughts must be overcome ?

Why? Because it's far more likely that won't happen. And many of those women would quite like to be able to trust again.

A woman who wants to be able to specify a female HCP is treated as though her request is so out there that there must be something very wrong with her and she is wished a sort of religious type prayer offering her peace

I spent a post endeavouring to be sensitive to and empathetic to your position, and I simply wish you well. No more nor less.

I just respectfully disagree with some of what you say, if wishing you well is some sort of malign oppressive act of patriarchy then I very much doubt any man is capable of anything approaching right action in your world view, and that I find sad, not that I mean in any way you yourself are sad or pitiable in anyway just a simple sadness about the state of the world.

I am someone that had social services called on me. Police also. Long story short they were in the wrong and it’s wrong to even threaten to call them for refusal. It doesn’t change the fact she had no plans at all, not even making it known that if she did need to attend hospital she would only accept a female checking her. Point is there was no female available and I don’t know why this woman is complaining when she didn’t make anyone aware of her preferences.

I think that if there are concerns that there is risk of harm to a child (or will be in the case of unborn children) then a safeguarding referral should be made. Social care aren't going to remove the baby or force the woman to have the baby in hospital but they can at least explore with the family their understanding of the risks and provide any support if it's needed. That's if they even take the case, they don't open a case for every referral.

It does mean there would be a record though, and if the parent then went on to not meet their child's needs once born it might add to an assessment of the parenting (might).

Imagine if HCPs didn't make safeguarding referrals...that would be awful.

Dervel.

I would of course expect a man to disagree with what I say. It doesn't benefit men to agree with anything I'm saying does it

Datun, yes but it's not normal to be thinking about whether or not your doctor has a fetish and is doing this job for access to women and is porn obsessed and evil...that's just a weird thing to even think about.

No loops. But learning about sexual fetishism, and the lengths men go to practice it, has made me a lot more informed about the entire issue.

It's made me look back over my experience and see things through an entirely different lens.

Instances which I thought were maybe a little uncomfortable for me, I now see differently, informed as I am.

My, let's call them women's medical issues, have been relatively straightforward.

But, they were uninformed.

I can think of a least three instances which left me uncomfortable, but without the framework of sexism and/or entitled weirdness, I had nowhere to go with it.

My local surgery has a doctor/wife combo. I don't think he is weird, in any way, shape, or form.

But I will pick her over him for intimate stuff.

That's not the same as noticing weirdness.

GrammarTeacher

What if she overcame her distrust of men only to find herself in another abusive relationship? I bet that happens all the time

Datun

Yes can we just reflect on the fact that NSPCC guy has said the best bit about his job at Ann summers was making women uncomfortable.

I don't actually think all men. But as I say with the bathroom argument, we exclude all because we can't tell.

And the NSPCC debacle has just made it all the more obvious that fetishists are attracted to certain jobs.

And to be honest, the reason I'd not want a man doing an intimate procedure is not even because I think he probably watches porn, but because I can't deal with male arrogance. It's such a gendered phenomenon.

Loops - they can only make safeguarding referrals if they have proven concerns. Here:

It offered an apology for the remark regarding a referral to social services, adding, “We would have no reason to do this unless we have proven concerns about the parenting, which we did not.”

Nobody's suggesting dispensing with safeguarding referrals - just that refusal of medical interventions, or wanting an unassisted birth, is not a reason for one.

Oh, changing things again? So before it was because they could be getting turned on, then it’s because of power and now it’s arrogance.. okay. You dislike all men, that’s okay, I understand why. I’m afraid of men in general myself. So for you personally you should always refuse, again that’s okay. Banning them from specific areas is too far.