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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

999 replies

sakura184 · 12/07/2019 01:28

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

OP posts:
ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:27

Unless you are claiming to be "most women" lass - then you have no way of knowing if my assumption was wrong.

As I said, I was going on my conversations with women I know - I would be interested in knowing how many women would prefer a female to do a smear. I suspect it would be the majority. We only have female nurses at my surgery doing smears - that maybe because they know women prefer to have intimate examinations done by women, or it may be because the majority of nurses are female.

LassOfFyvie · 16/07/2019 00:27

If I say most women, Lass - it does not mean I was referring to you. Most does not mean all

And what is your point? I never said "all women". You made an assumption about "most women". I'm a woman- your assumption does not apply to me. It doesn't matter whether you were referring specifically to me. I am a woman to whom your assumption does not apply.

ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:29

So we should stay away from all men because some might like porn?

I don't think I said "stay away from" - as we're picking language and comprehension apart tonight. But, maybe not let them intimately examine you. Unless you're into that sort of thing, of course.

LassOfFyvie · 16/07/2019 00:29

Unless you are claiming to be "most women" lass - then you have no way of knowing if my assumption was wrong

No I'm not claiming that. You are the one claiming to speak for "most women"

You have no way of knowing your assumption is right.

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:29

I'm a woman- your assumption does not apply to me

Or me.
There isn't half a lot of speaking for other women going on here.

ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:30

Sorry Lass, you can fury with me all you like.

I still think, from my experience, most women prefer to have their cervix examined by a female nurse.

I accept you are not one of them.

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:32

It's not fury Hmm
It's called disagreeing with you. As you do seem to be making an awful lot of assumptions.

LassOfFyvie · 16/07/2019 00:34

Sorry Lass, you can fury with me all you like

Oh that's a nice touch. How many times have I read on FWR the complaint by feminists that men dismiss women's arguments by saying they get over- emotional, over heated, furious even. How hypocritical can you get?

Original poster
sakura184 · 16/07/2019 00:34

There isn't half a lot of speaking for other women going on here

Or not letting women get on with the topic of the thread because of all the nitpicking and pulling language apart.

I'm glad we're finally after 600 posts discussing that men might go into gynecology because they're fetishists. It's an important discussion to be had in light of the fact they impose care such as internal examinations on unwilling women, and have the right to make decisions over non compliant women's bodies.

It's telling that it's taken us so long to get here

OP posts:
ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:37

And how bloody arrogant of you by the way. All the talk about "silencing women" that goes on here yet you have the nerve to crow that you think you have scored some cheap point.

Doesn't sound like a light hearted comment to me. Sounds pretty angry.

ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:39

Perhaps you'd like to not call women arrogant for speaking of their own experiences?

I'd understand your point if I'd said ALL women, but I said clearly, in my experience most women. I've already said I accept you are not one of them.

ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:41

You're right sakura - I won't be commenting on the ALL / MOST debacle again.

Does anyone deny that a man might go into midwifery because he has a sexual fetish of pregnant women/cervical examination? Does anyone think this is an impossible scenario?

LassOfFyvie · 16/07/2019 00:41

I was pointing out you made a cheap point. The point about your hypocrisy stands.

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:43

But, maybe not let them intimately examine you
Why?
Unless you're into that sort of thing, of course
Oh right, you're back into sexual thing now or something?
Interesting.
Funny how everyone has said that you should always have a choice of female, but anyone who has no preference should maybe not let them intimately examine you unless you're into that sort of thing" - insinuating it's a sexual thing.
How's that not belittling or dismissing?

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:44

Or not letting women get on with the topic of the thread because of all the nitpicking and pulling language apart.

As another poster said upthread, we got to where we were because of the level of extremism shown.

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:44

should read to where we are not were

ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:45

level of extremism

Really? That's something feminists have thrown at them a lot.

LassOfFyvie · 16/07/2019 00:46

Perhaps you'd like to not call women arrogant for speaking of their own experiences?

Oh come off it. "Your cheap little point was that in your experience of posting sweeping generalisations someone will post that their experience is different. And I did. That was what I called arrogant.

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:46

Perhaps you'd like to not call women arrogant for speaking of their own experiences?

Maybe think about not saying women who have no preference and would have a man examine them shouldn't do it - unless they're into "that sort of thing?"

ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:47

I don't think it's that extreme for a woman to advocate for women-only intimate health care. Sure, not every woman may want or need it - but maybe enough do, and it would be nice to not have to stipulate a female nurse, or risk being told "we've only got a male nurse here" - which has happened to women.

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:48

Really? That's something feminists have thrown at them a lot

There is some extremism as shown on this thread.
It's certainly not moderate wanting total segregation is it?

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:51

How hypocritical can you get?

It's amazing, it really is.
I'm still slightly slack jawed at the utter blatant attempt and conflation and re-writing what I had actually said.

LassOfFyvie · 16/07/2019 00:51

I have to say Zebras I sincerely hope you aren't involved in health care or if you are that I never come across you.

I'd hate to be treated by someone so convinced they are right , so unwilling to consider other views and so keen on petty point- scoring.

Oh and btw I'm quite fond of petty point- scoring but at least I've got the self- awareness to acknowledge it.

ZebrasAreBras · 16/07/2019 00:52

Why not though? Why do you consider it so extreme to have women-only intimate health care?

Female only spaces, female only rape crisis centres, female only refuges, female only intimate health care - why are these things considered extreme?

RosesAndRaindrops · 16/07/2019 00:54

I don't think it's that extreme for a woman to advocate for women-only intimate health care
Neither do I, if there is a choice of males there too.
There should always be a choice.

but maybe enough do, and it would be nice to not have to stipulate a female nurse, or risk being told "we've only got a male nurse here" - which has happened to women
Can't you see though by advocating for total segregation you're taking away the choice for others? You already have the choice to stipulate.
You want it taken away from others.

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