Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

[sakura184]

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

Anyway, I have things to be getting on with. If you can't see how the OP led the discussion here with her extremism I don't know what to say to you. I actually blame all of us for the state of masculinity today. If you think that separatism is the way forward all power to you. It doesn't solve anything for society but if that's what you have to do to get through the day then all power to you.
I am taking a different approach to you. It does not mean I am not a feminist. It does not mean I am the enemy. I am off to eat my dinner and mark some GCSE pieces.

FinL comment yes I DO deny they are stealing women's jobs. There are more than enough midwifery vacancies for everyone. Seriously, they're desperate. No one is losing their job to a man.

I've never come across a male midwife. It's actually really funny that that's what's being highlighted as the problem. My right to choose! Where are the men?

Grammar - Separatism - as you call it - isn't a "way forward" because women already have the right to ask for a female HCP.

The woman in the OP was badly treated for exercising this right - for exercising the right to say who treats her, who examines her intimately. That's the issue.

No. Separatism is what the OP was suggesting when she said REPEATEDLY that men should not be ob/gyn specialists.

No. Separatism is what the OP was suggesting when she said REPEATEDLY that men should not be ob/gyn specialists

Exactly, I mean it's there in black and white for anyone to see.

Like, thinking about the power structure in hospitals, who is there, who has the right to do what. That's really important. I wish that conversation had gone further.

No Grammar - you and Roses have repeatedly belittled women for wanting female HCPs. That's the issue on this thread.

I haven’t read the whole thread due to the length. Although this mother had a horrible experience may I just say that I gave birth to three children in the USA and every one was a very positive experience. It was just at my local hospital but it was recognized as “baby-friendly” by the World Health Organization and UNICEF: a gold standard of care. DH and I were given weeks of free classes leading up to the birth and lots of info about after the baby was born. They were extremely supportive of breastfeeding and had a breastfeeding clinic you could attend at any time for help. They were awesome, I needed up BFing my three for years each due to such a positive and encouraging start.

The statistics on mothers and baby’s dying are terrible but please acknowledge how enormous the US is. Each state can have different policies and each hospital. Directly comparing the USA to one European country is not like-for-like, you can fit all of Western Europe into the US easily. I had a doula for my first two births with full support of the hospital. The poverty rates in the US are high and unfortunately it is poorer women, undocumented immigrants and women of color who are more at risk. A lot of this has to do with a lack of pre-natal care and of course issues around insurance. Very poor mums are usually completely covered financially, it is usually the working poor who are more at risk as they fall through the cracks in terms of getting insurance coverage. Hopefully so-called Obama care has improved those stats.

My point is, the occasional awful story should not be used to make sweeping judgements about an enormous and complex health care system. I had excellent health care before and after my births, and I don’t know anyone personally who has anything less than a very professional experience where the mother’s needs and her birth plan/desires were centered. I also know many women who had home births with the full support of their doctors/midwives.

No Grammar - you and Roses have repeatedly belittled women for wanting female HCPs

I have NEVER belittled anyone for wanting female HCP's, I have REPEATEDLY said you should always have the right to choose.
It's there for all to see and I'm not sure why you can't.

"there's no easy way to say this but that is an utterly, paranoid way to live and not healthy."

Remember saying that roses?

ZebrasAreBras
No Grammar - you and Roses have repeatedly belittled women for wanting female HCPs. That's the issue on this thread

Where? That is not what I have read at all!

hazey, I just quoted one example above. Calling women utterly paranoid for not wanting to be treated by a man?

No Zebra. I have expressed concern for people who live their lives in fear. Not express a mild preference although I don't understand why skill and experience wouldn't be your first criteria but there we go. A live lived in fear is a dreadful thing. And I stand by that. My husband feared for my life after my first birth. The reason we needed the debrief was for him. Not for me. Although it was helpful for both of us in the end.
The issue in most negative birth experiences and indeed in most negative health experiences is poor communication. We've seen examples on this thread.
But my marking calls. This will be last post. A discussion about the intricacies of patient/carer relationships and power issues would indeed be interesting. That wasn't what the OP wanted.

But women who are victims of sexual assault by men often do live their lives in fear of men. It's not a bloody choice.

Yeah, I mean even if you love men yourself, anyone can understand that other people might have bad experiences? Or not even, but they're sensitive to the power imbalance with men. Like the whole sex difference, women vulnerable thing during pregnancy. A lot of people scream abuse at their husbands while in Labour and fair enough.

No. Separatism is what the OP was suggesting when she said REPEATEDLY that men should not be ob/gyn specialists.

Erm excuse me. I did retract that when some women came on here saying they preferred a man.

No problem I said. Nobody is stopping you from having a man. Certainly not me.

But other women still have the right to state they prefer no men at all in their care

Where? That is not what I have read at all!

Exactly, thank you!

"there's no easy way to say this but that is an utterly, paranoid way to live and not healthy.

I do remember saying this, yes but you seem to be conflating it with me belittling your choice for female HCP's.
I didn't.
I've always said you should have the right to choose females if you want them.
I said what you quoted because the OP said she wanted segregation from men and that they all had ulterior motives/to be feared.
I said NO that's not healthy and a paranoid way to live. Which it is.

And I do think it's weird that men want to go into gynecology and I do suspect their motives after seeing the NSPCC fiasco and the types of men attracted to children's charities.

But that's just me.

I'm not stopping anyone from having a man gynecologist

I did retract that when some women came on here saying they preferred a man

You did water down your views a bit when disagreed with, yes but that doesn't change your original views -ulterior motives, don't have them there at all, stealing all the jobs.
All the way through the thread you've painted them as to be feared and only there for sinister motives.
However much you backtrack and pretend you haven't.
It's there on the thread.

I just keep laughing at "feminist anlaysis = ulterior motives"

Sorry yes I do have ulterior motives if that's what you mean

I said what you quoted because the OP said she wanted segregation from men and that they all had ulterior motives/to be feared.

Firstly, I sincerely doubt she said "all" men - but it is a fact that some men have ulterior motives, and that some men are to be feared - and we don't know which ones. They don't wear signs. It is also a fact that sex offenders will often look for jobs where they can gain access to victims.

Secondly, why call somebody "paranoid" even if they do have a fear of all men? It may be as a result of sexual assault, or domestic abuse - but even if it's not - no need to belittle women like that. Women do have good reason to fear men. They're bigger, stronger, likely to be in a position of authority, and sadly, a proportion of them will go to great lengths to sexually assault women. And, sadder still, the vast majority that do assault women will not face justice for it.

Yes, we can. If women don't feel comfortable being treated by a man, then they damn well have the right to ask for a woman. And they should not be guilted and shamed for it.

Not one person has said that. How do you plan to make all midwives only women and the same for any staff on a labour ward. We don’t have enough people in these jobs as it is. People can choose a man or a woman if they like but if your preference isn’t available whose fault will it be if you get worse? Only your own.

So I "backtracked" and said yes fine you can have a man if you want.

(Remember it's especially important I said this because, as a woman, I'm the one who makes all the decisions with all that power I have over medical institutions)

Can we move on with the discussion.

I said what you quoted because the OP said she wanted segregation from men and that they all had ulterior motives/to be feared.**

Total lie that I said ALL men.

I've said again and again and again that it's the same as the trans in bathrooms argument. Some men are lovely, some aren't , and because we can't know which are which we exclude all men.
It's not personal and men who take it personally-- well it says a lot about them doesn't it