Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

[sakura184]

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

@GrammarTeacher
The thread is about birth trauma. I'm interested to know, what are the elements that contribute to trauma. Instead we're discussing boys self esteem. Yes, boys self esteem is important, but actually this topic of birth trauma has not evolved as well as it could have. There's much more to be said, you know?

Why would you actively prefer a man to perform an intimate medical procedure? Not caring either way I can understand, but wtf actively prefers a man?

Roses - I quote you from this thread:

"there's no easy way to say this but that is an utterly, paranoid way to live and not healthy."
"It's hate against all males as one big group and not everyone is ever going to go along with that.'

You've said those things about women wanting to be treated by female HCPs.

I teach teenage boys. I care very much how they turn out. They suffer from the mess that masculinity is just the same as the girls who join us in sixth form do. It manifests in the same ways because it is bad for everyone. If wanting to make the world a better place for everyone makes me no longer a feminist as far as your concerned then go right ahead. Call me 'handmaiden' and think you're oh so clever form vaguely referring (badly) to an Attwood novel. I am FAR from enabling shit from any direction actually. I encouraged a former student to follow his dream of being a primary teacher because he would be fantastic at it. I don't care if you think he was 'stealing' a female job.
However, whatever you say, I AM a feminist. You might not like or approve of the fact I disagree with you. I'm ok with that. I'm not ok with having my choices removed or people claiming to speak for me.
I teach in a grammar school, I've had worse attacks on here.

@Rosesandraindrops
My understanding of the ops argument (don't want to speak for her) is several related arguments:

1. She personally does not want men when she gives birth.

1. All women should be able to choose.

1. The structure of the system affects our birth experiences, we are in a patriarchy. Men should not have all the power in work environments or any power in places of birth (or whatever they're called)

I did yes, as someone else said it first and I agreed with them so said that.

@ChequersDog I don't actively prefer I just don't care. Someone upthread suggested that due to a bad experience with female staff they would prefer male. Which is the same in reverse to a lot of other people's reasoning. Not too hard to imagine.

Grammar - Who called you a handmaiden? I said I suppose we should count ourselves lucky we're not handmaids.

But no, I wouldn't consider someone a feminist if they don't centre women. And your posts here do not centre women, and are very concerned about the poor, poor men.

2. All women should be able to choose

HOW when OP said she would like them not to be there at all as they all have motives and are taking away jobs so shouldn't be in the profession?
How are people not getting this?!

No. This is partly your fault as a person. And this form of feminism

jesus

@Maniak you are wrong on point 2 if you read the whole thread. She wanted no men in the birth room for anyone. She stated this several times and that they shouldn't be in the role as they were stealing a woman's job. She also said they were all clearly nefarious in intention. Which gave rise to my concern. Going around scared of all men is no way to live.

Well, I think when she made those points she was addressing arguments 1 or 3. I've seen her talk about right to choose on numerous posts.

Chequers - that was me upthread. I explained many pages ago (!) that due to terrible experiences with female midwives and gynaecologists, I would always prefer a male. I - personally - find them to be gentler and kinder. Hope that answers your question.

@ZebrasAreBras I do centre women. I just see the larger picture and how it effects everyone. As it does. The original post was about birth trauma. But then the OP quickly said that no it wasn't. And we are where we are.
There are many factors leading to toxic (unkind) masculinity. The assumption that all men are... (insert whatever characteristic) is one of them. I wouldn't consider any assumption of any group to be in keeping with feminism. But if you do, carry on. I won't no part in what you call feminism.

"jesus"

I know! Mindblowing how an OP where a woman suffered terrible treatment for wanting a female HCP has turned into Grammar &co berating feminists - and having all the feelings for all the poor male midwives.

Well here's OP to one poster for starters
Utter handmaidens. What a betrayal

That was in response to Zebras question by the way

You think toxic masculinity is the fault of feminism?

I have to disagree. I think toxic masculinity was around long before feminism - and feminism is a movement to counter it.

Roses, I'm afraid you're mistaken - that was directed to another poster:

"@BeyondDangerousTshirts

That's absolutely what this is about .And the utter infantilization of you with the phrase "don't be silly", something you might say to a child.
We discussed misogynistic midwives below. Utter handmaidens. What a betrayal"

And I'm inclined to agree with the OP there.

Roses, I'm afraid you're mistaken - that was directed to another poster

Did you miss where I said here's OP to one poster for starters?

She's clearly calling other women handmaidens for not wanting choice to be taken away from them.

Or just handmaidens in general for disagreeing

Seriously, the OP said male gyns were stealing women's jobs and might watch porn.

She also said people should be able to choose but refused to answer when several asked her how that was possible if there were no men in that specialty.

As for the article in the OP - while choosing is good, if you drop into a small hospital having made no contact ahead of time, you may be limited in who is there to treat you, and they won't know anything about your preferences either. It's too bad the woman was too scared to go for pre-natal care but that was the main cause of the whole problem.

Seriously, the OP said male gyns were stealing women's jobs and might watch porn.

Do you deny it?

As for the article in the OP - while choosing is good, if you drop into a small hospital having made no contact ahead of time, you may be limited in who is there to treat you, and they won't know anything about your preferences either.

Actually, the article is very clear that on arriving at the hospital, the OP requested only female HCPs.

It is also very clear that any woman can refuse an examination of her cervix for any reason. Medical treatment is by consent.

She also said people should be able to choose but refused to answer when several asked her how that was possible if there were no men in that specialty

Exactly, I'd still love to know how you're supposed to choose