Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

[sakura184]

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

The article is just so shocking, sakura84 - this bit:

During labor, Rambo says a male resident demanded to check her cervix. She objected. As an experienced mother and doula, Rambo wanted a non-invasive birth process. As a survivor of sexual assault, she needed to retain the right to say no. She signed her permission for any life-saving procedures but beyond that, she informed staff that she wanted to have a conversation about her right to refuse any other procedure. According to the patient bill of rights, all people have the right to refuse any treatment.

It's like that man, and the other HCPs had no respect for her bodily autonomy at all. It's like the women's rights movement never happened.

Anyone who has ever read anything at all about healthcare for women pre-1950s knows what it was like, and that it was grim - and almost completely male dominated.

Women's bodily autonomy is paramount.

They are not 'fighting their way into birthing rooms'! They are trained professionals. Who have been to university. And trained. And are welcomed with their skills by many of us.
And it is sex which is the protected characteristic not being a woman. In MOST cases that is because sexism works against women. But this isn't the case for every situation. By all means don't give a shit personally about men, but don't deny that they experience it.

*GrammarTeacher
I refuse to feel bad that my feminism is one of equality. Not one that thinks all men are the enemy and must be excluded from all spaces.

Me as well. No. Not happening, as I'm really not comfortable with the idea of segregating women.
How is that progressive

You also seem to think you need protected from men.

We do. And I'm not about to deny it, just because of your deluded vision of "equality." Women are overwhelmingly the victims of sexual assault, and men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators. For that, we most certainly deserve the right to space away from men, to ask for no men in the delivery room, and to ask for a female nurse/doctor. End of.

Feminism is for equality for women. Not men.

How is it equality for women though if you have other women telling you what you should be doing or making decisions for you that you should be segregated> I;m not seeing how that;s any better than men telling us what to do.

Fighting for women's rights to segregated space/female HCPs is not the same as telling all women what to do.

If you want to accept a man doing your smear, or a male midwife, go ahead. Be my guest. But it is essential to women's bodily autonomy that they have the right to ask for a woman HCP.

*And that those women's decisions are respected - rather than being treated as "non-compliant" or a troublemaker.

Women are entitled to say no

"Equality" means equal to men. Women and men will never be equal because only women give birth. That's why it makes no sense to define feminism in those terms. Feminism is rights for women.

Fighting for women's rights to segregated space/female HCPs is not the same as telling all women what to do. If you want to accept a man doing your smear, or a male midwife, go ahead

Have you missed where the OP wants them out altogether?
How do you do that then if they've gone? Not allowed to be near females?

I am not deluded thank you very much. And there is a huge difference between having safe spaces and expressing a preference to what Sakura suggested. She has insisted on several occasions that all women agree. We don't. I genuinely care more about the qualifications and experience of my health care staff than their sex. I want the best available to me. Some people would compromise on that but not other things. Fair enough. But do not take away my choice or the choice of people for what profession they have in the name of equality. It's not. I will not be told what to think by anyone. I will not think that everyone is a likely attacker. The majority of assaults are committed by men but the majority of me do NOT commit assault. Assuming they do contributes to toxic masculinity.
It is also the same thinking behind blaming all Muslims for terrorism (and indeed the anti-Catholicism I experienced in my youth).

@sakura184 - Women's right to say NO - now that is a central tenet of feminism

And something I've noticed, a lot of men really, really do not like it when women say no to them.

Sakura but you are insisting that we should not be able to say yes. Or that it isn't even my primary concern in this particular situation.
I would like my son to see positive untiring role models. He has done. You would seem to deny they exist.

@GrammarTeacher excellent post, virtual standing on a chair here and clapping at that.

Your one at 17.48 that is

I think it helps when a midwife has had experience giving birth herself. But most people start their training when they are young and may go on to have children or not. So I can't see how that would work.

@zebra it's larger than that. It's a woman's right to be HEARD. Whatever they want to say. If Sakura has phrased her OP in those terms you bet it would have been a long list of agreement. Because that's right. Women fought for that right. We've celebrated the anniversary of the start of being listened to early.
I'm tired of being silenced by people on this board because I disagree. The suffragettes and suffragists disagreed. No one gains when you debate in a vacuum.

GrammarTeacher - well good for you, aren't you just so superior to all us silly women wanting a female carer. So equal of you. IME, the majority of women agree that they would rather have a female tbh. But if you don't -like I said, go ahead. Don't be trying to take away women's rights to ask for a female though, and don't be trying to guilt or shame us for doing so.

@Maniak I think that's quite wrong as well. I know several midwives. All of which were successful and well thought of and caring before and after having children. There are excellent midwives who have never had children.
I was teaching for over a decade before I had children. I am not a better teacher now I have children. I am a slightly more efficient one that is all.

GrammarTeacher - well good for you, aren't you just so superior to all us silly women wanting a female carer. So equal of you

And I said you should always have the right to choose.
Sakura said she wants them out altogether and us segregated though.

You don't seem to care about men at all to be frank

Honestly OP - just submit. Comply. Give in. Be a good quiet woman and acknowledge that men must be centred everywhere. There can be no opposition. Women must totally comply or - shock horror- you're a man hater

@ZebrasAreBras I'm not!!!! @sakura184 is taking away my choice. There is no such thing as a male or female career by the way. There are careers. And jobs. Depending on how you look at them. I do not consider myself superior to any of you. I do however, reserve the right to worry about someone who says they are genuinely concerned about the motivations of every man they meet.

Teaching is different though. You have experience of being a student.

I think that women giving birth would be preferably cared for by other women - but that's just my opinion. I wouldn't stop you seeking out a male midwife if you think they'd be somehow better at it?

I don't think midwifery is missing anything if the men aren't involved