Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

[sakura184]

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

@GrammarTeacher

"There was no one else" a is a rubbish excuse to give a woman. A woman should have a midwife they like and get along with.

It's very telling that we just can't happen to find the necessary money for women's health but we can find it for lots of other things that i personally deem unnecessary

As for men in obstetrics and gynecology, I think they are way over represented because there are far too many women who wanted a female consultant / doctor and ended up with a man against their will. I do regard this as a man having taken a job from a woman. I really don't know why there are so many unwanted men, lording it over women too, going by the stories of abuse I've heard

That being said, I do understand that some women would prefer a man. I get it. I do. And these women should be catered for too: thing is this isn't really controversial.

It's the women trying to get away from men that are committing thought crimes , it seems

You didn't original say that men should be allowed though. You said they shouldn't be there at all. Why are you assuming they all have negative reasons for wanting to work in that specialism. The lack of staff available at night isn't just an issue for ob/gyn though. It is in all areas of healthcare. This is NOT the fault of HCPs but of a political charged decision to destroy the NHS. Apparently this is what people want in my area as they continue to vote for this party in large numbers.

@GrammarTeacher
It's true that I don't think men should be in the field and I do suspect their motives/

That being said some women have come on this thread and said they'd prefer a man. I do get that. Women can be misogynistic bitches and drawn to power and a woman might regard this betrayal by a woman as worse than any treatment she'd receive from a man. So ultimately I think female midwives and female consultants should be the default and you can opt in for male care if you prefer .

But why suspect all their motives. Do you genuinely believe that they get in for power and not to help people? That is to me utterly amazing. The vast majority of people get into health care to help people. Some become jaded due to working conditions or personal reasons. Ones who get into to it for the reasons you suggest are very rare.
Although I have my suspicions about my orthodontist when I was a teen. Still go to my male dentist though.

@GrammarTeacher

I just do. I can think why they're there. Why they think they're supposed to be there, why they assume they're welcome.
And then when I hear again and again actual cases of them abusing women it's just... the sheer arrogance

It's like, why don't the good, genuine men in gynecology police the pervs? Get them excluded. Sacked. They don't . Women keep reporting experiences of misogyny in childbirth.

No, women keep reporting bad experiences in childbirth. Sometimes caused by men sometimes by women. Most often caused by failure to communicate. I don't know why you seem to think this would stop if there were no men involved in childbirth?

A link to the thread about doctors and their students thinking it's completely fine to carry out non consensual pelvic examinations on women

#MedicalRapeCulture #InformedConsent

["I just read an article about how New York and Utah are voting to make it illegal for teaching hospitals to get students to carry out non-consensual pelvic exams on anaesthetized women.

Someone on the GenderCritical reddit forum posted "This is routinely done in some teaching hospitals while a woman is receiving surgery NOT related to anything vaginal. In other words, you go in for a shoulder repair surgery, and because you have med students, the surgeon decides all the students, be sure you read that, ALL the students can do a vaginal exam of the patient.(Examples including 4-6 students lining up to shove their fingers into an unconscious, unconsenting womans vagina and rectum) No specific consent has been asked for, much less given for that examination, and the patients are never told it even occurred. "

I thought it must just be something insane that only happens in the third world and USA, but then someone posted a link to this article www.forbes.com/sites/paulhsieh/2018/05/14/pelvic-exams-on-anesthetized-women-without-consent-a-troubling-and-outdated-practice/#79db45b47846 that mentions a paper by Phoebe Friesen in the journal Bioethics, she notes that “that the practice is alive and well” in many US and UK medical schools. It’s difficult to know exactly how often this is happening. Most medical school faculty and students don’t talk about it publicly, and affected patients are (by definition) unaware this is happening.

The article goes on to say that a UK survey “reported that at least 24% of intimate examinations they performed on anaesthetized patients occurred without any consent and that ‘on many occasions, more than one student examined the same patient’.”]

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553045-UK-teaching-hospitals-allowing-students-to-carry-out-pelvic-examinations-on-women-having-surgery-without-consent

I’m assuming you never leave your children or are alone yourself with any male from your family either. Seeing as most cases of abuse and rape are from your family or people you know. Do you also suggest no men in A&E in case they need to cut off an item of clothing and may get turned on. We can do this for everywhere, no male daycare workers either? Only women firefighters if you are a woman yourself and need help. It’s silly to try and ban an entire sex from a position just incase they watch porn or might rape a woman. Thing is, there are bad apples in every group, even in the police we have rapists. Maybe you shouldn’t be allowed to be arrested by a male? If there is no female available we just let criminals walk free? Explain how you want things to work if you want us to understand, right now it’s all ideas and none of them would work in practice.

@GrammarTeacher

That's true there are bad experiences involving women, and those women should be sacked, obviously, and in a normal society they would be.

But in cases where the abuse has been carried out by a man there is not only sometimes a sexual element but also a different power dynamic, because ( as feminist analysis would have it) men are in a different class/caste to women. So women like myself don't even want to consider the possibility of coming into contact with a male physician or midwife during birth. some women might feel violated just because the person was a man, even if he is one with the purest of hearts. Their experience and opinions should still be taken seriously. Why wouldnt women's preferences for a female caregiver be taken seriously?

@Aaarrgghhh
I just keep referring you to the trans argument and why women are against them in bathrooms.

It's perfectly reasonable for a woman to exercise precautions, in this case, being able to request a female midwife and /or obstetrician

I don't want this thread to derail but loads of Mothers say they'd never consider a male babysitter

But why suspect all their motives. Do you genuinely believe that they get in for power and not to help people?

Exactly, there's no easy way to say this but that is an utterly, paranoid way to live and not healthy.

I just keep referring you to the trans argument and why women are against them in bathrooms

And I'd hazard a guess at it's because of men.
Some saying No transwoman at all, as men (not my view just to be clear!)
Just like on this thread it is similar you're right, as it's a case of no men in hospitals, cos men have motives

It's hate against all males as one big group and not everyone is ever going to go along with that.

I don't ever want to live in a world where women are completely segregrated from men which is what the OP comes across as wanting.
No.
This branch of feminism doesn't speak for me.

I've said that even if their motives are pure, I still don't want a male professional near me in childbirth.
Birth is very primal, so even on that level it will make sense for a woman in labour not to want an unknown male in her vicinity. Some midwives say that the constant interruption of the primal part of the brain during labour is the reason so many births can slow or stall.
I've also said many times that I wouldn't want a midwife who hasn't given birth herself either. I have the same feelings of "what are you doing here?" But not to the same extent as with a man. They just strike me as being so out of place.

And this is just if we say that the men's motives are pure and innocent. What about the ones who go into the field because they get some kind of sadistic or sexual kick out of it? What percentage of them are in it for those reasons? How could you ever know or tell? Some women figure they'll take their chances . Other women should absolutely be allowed to voice preferences for a female caregiver or obstetrician. I think it's weird that this has to be justified

Other women should absolutely be allowed to voice preferences for a female caregiver or obstetrician

Of course they should, and I've never said otherwise. You should absolutely have the choice.
Don't you see by going by what you originally said though and they shouldn't be there at all, it's taking the choice away from other women?
We should ALL get to choose who we like, there should be a mix.
Then if you have a preference you ask for one.

But what does any of that actually mean? Birth is primal so men shouldn't be there? How does that even work? If birth is that primal then the logical extension of the thinking would be Free Birth for all. No thank you.
But we aren't ever going to agree. You think all men have an agenda. That just isn't true. Some men do. Or, more accurately, some people do. And various intersectional issues could also be at play there. I would find it utterly exhausting going through life trusting people less than I trust my 'naughty' year 10s. People often live up (or indeed down) to your expectations.
Yes, choice would be fantastic. In which case you should be campaigning for better funding for health and education. No point reducing the number of men if no one is trained to replace them.

If birth is that primal then the logical extension of the thinking would be Free Birth for all. No thank you.

I can't think of anything worse
I was like gimme the gas and air
I don't care who looks up there just get it out of me lol

love the kids really

I also want to highlight the NSPCC fiasco and the fact that women are starting to wake up to the notion that predatory males might gravitate towards certain professions and companies precisely because it gives them access to the vulnerable.
I didn't want to believe it myself , you like to think people go into jobs in good faith and all that

What about lesbian midwives having an agenda 🤔 or gay male midwives? Do they have to disclose their sexual orientation on their badge?

Presumably they're OK though LittleWing as women don't do that )or something like that)
Not sure how it'd work with gay males though. presumably they'd get a pass as they're not interested in foofs?
Or maybe they're all just pretending and it's a ruse
My head's starting to hurt lol.

@GrammarTeacher

I discussed the lack of women downthread. I personally know women in really crap jobs who would love the opportunity for a professional career. Men get the better jobs in society, don't they, always have, feminist analysis explains to us how and why work and pay is gendered. Clue: it's not because women prefer low paid work

On a positive note more and more women are entering the medical profession. What I would also like to see is midwives' knowledge and experience being taken more seriously so we don't just get a perpetuation of the patriarchal model carried out by women

@LittleWing80

Predatory behavior is about the power dynamics between men and women, not sexual orientation. It's why heterosexual women are fine with lesbians in the changing rooms and bathrooms with them

It's irrelevant if they would like the opportunity if they don't have the education. You have not thought through what is necessary for what you want to happen. None of this will work practically speaking.

Also, why would I need to know if a male midwife is gay when I exclude all male midwives? What an utterly random point

I didn't want to believe it myself , you like to think people go into jobs in good faith and all that

Absolutely, and women, and those involved in child protection, simply cannot do that. It's page 1 of child protection training - you have to think the unthinkable.

In today's news, the councillor who campaigned for gender neutral toilets in Middlesbrough, is accused of child sex offences.

www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/middlesbrough-tory-councillor-appear-court-16586889