Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Birthing mother abused for refusing male nurse

999 replies

sakura184 · 12/07/2019 01:28

This kind of crap is why I opted for homebirths

pjmedia.com/parenting/colorado-doula-and-assault-survivor-investigated-by-dhs-for-refusing-male-nurse-during-birth/

OP posts:
AnotherAdultHumanFemale · 12/07/2019 01:46

Absolutely horrible. When I had an operation, I woke up after the anaesthetic with my naked body on show and male nurses walking up and down the room. It felt so degrading, like I was just seen as a naked body with no rights to privacy or dignity. I caught an infection in the hospital and had to return, and a horrible male doctor implied that I must have contracted the infection by having sex despite the fact that I was bleeding and had stitches (and had been single for years). It was unbelievable to be treated with such contempt.
I need to have another procedure done but I've delayed it for years because I'm scared of a repeat, and it's been affecting my health. I expect thousands of women have similar stories of avoiding procedures because of how degrading they can be and how little control we have over how we are treated.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 12/07/2019 02:36

This line, so much truth: "coercion is a part of the birth industry"

StrangeLookingParasite · 12/07/2019 02:37

That site is really dodgy, with a very obvious ideological bias.
It is especially ironic that the same people who would accuse a woman of medical neglect for rejecting a vitamin K shot would not bat an eyelash if the same woman walked into the hospital at 33 weeks gestation for an abortion.
Bullshit, frankly.

LassOfFyvie · 12/07/2019 03:09

That site is really dodgy, with a very obvious ideological bias

Yes that struck me too.

HerRoyalNotness · 12/07/2019 04:14

IME of USA healthcare (both birth and emergency care) they do everything by the book to avoid risk and litigation.

AmeriAnn · 12/07/2019 04:25

A resident isn't a nurse.

Chickenish · 12/07/2019 04:51

a resident isn’t a nurse yes of course that is the most important aspect of this woman’s trauma Hmm

Durgasarrow · 12/07/2019 05:10

Home birth is a very dangerous choice, unfortunately.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 12/07/2019 05:28

Durgasarrow

Home birth is a very dangerous choice, unfortunately.

That is far from universally true. In low risk situations with a well trained midwife, homebirth is at least as safe as a hospital birth.

FannyCann · 12/07/2019 07:01

The USA has the worst maternal mortality rate in the developed world.
I have seen other shocking articles about the abuse mothers suffer in childbirth over there.

As an ex midwife I know how difficult it can be to safely manage unrealistic birth plans and expectations, staying within hospital policy whilst trying to respect a mother's wishes. But many of this mother's complaints ring true and her treatment was shocking.

I would say refusing vitamin K is ill advised especially for a pre term birth, and have known a case when the baby developed a bleeding problem with very serious consequences that were entirely preventable. However the level of coercion and subsequent involvement of social services is outrageous.

Their failure to respect her request for no male attendants is indefensible. The behaviour of the male doctor planning to do an internal examination is disgraceful. In the UK consent and explanation is all, as is the "Hello my name is..." campaign so that all professionals take a moment to introduce themselves and explain what they need to do.
To just walk in glove and lube up without a by your leave is disgraceful but a common complaint I have seen in the USA.

Branding her non compliant and setting up battles when she needed reassurance and empathy is terrible. I sympathise with her objection to being profiled as a likely drug user and demanding to do drug tests. That's the sort of thing that would raise my hackles and cause me to dig my toes in too. They wouldn't believe her.

Also home birth for an experienced low risk mother is probably much safer than entering a hospital like this. Lots of research has been done into the relative safety of a home birth. It boils down to the simple fact that should an emergency situation arise there is no immediate medical back up. That is a risk anyone who opts for a home birth needs to take on board. A colleague had to deal with a difficult case of shoulder dystocia (baby's shoulders getting stuck) and she managed the emergency safely but the baby had a broken collarbone which is a not uncommon birth injury associated with this. It could have been much worse and obviously no chance of getting to hospital.
But I wouldn't advise against homebirth for a low risk mother. It can be a wonderful experience. And my mother had all four of us at home - it was the norm in her day.

And take a moment to think that even Serena Williams had to fight her medics. She knew she had a life threatening PE and they weren't believing her.

GeorgeFayne · 12/07/2019 07:41

This is an interesting article and my impression is that there is A LOT more to this story. I suspect there are many layers to this, and it reflects the complexity of the current health care situation in the US quite well.

There is a growing movement in the US to reject "conventional" medicine. This is especially true for the field of obstetrics, where I DO believe there has been significant harm to women and babies from a patriarchal, antiquated system. (That's a lengthy post on its own topic.)

The answer, however, is not to pursue freebirth or reject care entirely. (Freebirth is the practice of having no professional support during delivery and often throughout the pregnancy, including the use of a midwife. It is incredibly risky for both mother and baby.). This mother, because of her background as a doula (no formal medical training for this in the US) opted not to see a midwife until her third trimester, something which is highly unwise and makes me question her judgement. Her preterm labor may very well have been prevented (or at least anticipated with a plan of care in place) had she been followed by some sort of a practitioner earlier in pregnancy.

Once a mother presents to a hospital in preterm labor, it's a high alert situation. All hands on deck, ready to help that mother and baby. The well designed birth plan or low intervention delivery goals can fall to the wayside, especially if there is fetal distress.

Having discord between the mother and the care providers escalates emotions--on both sides. I've been on the receiving end of parents who are refusing medically necessary interventions and it's very challenging. I've had colleagues lose their tempers or have moments of unprofessional behavior when they feel a child is being harmed by a parental choice. It happens; physicians are human, too.

I can understand her desire not to have a male examine her. Under planned, calm, or normal circumstances, I strongly feel hospitals should honor this request. However, in an emergent situation, it's possible (especially in a semi-rural hospital as this appears to be) the male resident and attending were the only OB providers available. Again, prenatal care throughout the pregnancy (with a midwife or OB) could have identified a concern earlier on and prevented this from occurring.

Delivering a preemie is very different than a healthy, term baby. We whisk the preemies away immediately to ensure their vitals (especially breathing) are stable. Minutes lost here can result in damage to the brain or even death. Every second counts. Waiting for the cord to fully stop pulsating could have significantly threatened this infant, and I feel the mother was foolish to make this an issue. She is fortunate her baby is doing so well; I've attended plenty of births where the outcomes are much less happy...

Refusing vitamin K was also not based on a sound understanding of the evidence. The wording in the article really made me angry. It is incredibly safe and yes, it IS lifesaving.

In some states in the US, the law mandates that refusal of vitamin K (or the antibiotic eye ointment or hepatitis B vaccination) results in an automatic call to child protective services. (I don't necessarily support these laws, but they do exist. I did not have erythromycin put in my babies eyes at birth, but fortunately, my state does not require I be reported.) Many states stipulate that parents sign extensive waivers indicating they understand the risks and still decline the treatment, which can be perceived as "pressuring" or "coercion," but is again a matter of state law.

Bottom line: we definitely have issues to deal with for obstetrical and neonatal care here in the US. (It's a broken system and we have a sicker population here.) But this mother's judgement does, in my opinion, seem to be lacking and I feel she seems to be lost in a very one-sided view of her experience. The overwhelming majority of physicians, nurses, midwives, and mid-level practitioners in the US care deeply for their patients and are not out to punish mothers.

GeorgeFayne · 12/07/2019 07:47

Oh, and most hospitals and/or states have protocols or standing orders for drug screening for all unanticipated preterm labor. (We do have very high rates of substance abuse here in the US and sadly, it can result in premature birth, thus many regulations.) I strongly doubt she was targeted on this issue, but this was simply a matter of policy. It's pretty standard practice at many hospitals to withhold pumped breastmilk until the maternity
tox screen is back, (which is typically less than 24 hours).

LassOfFyvie · 12/07/2019 07:59

But many of this mother's complaints ring true and her treatment was shocking

I would say refusing vitamin K is ill advised especially for a pre term birth

Her insistence on refusing vitamin K led me to question the veracity of her version of events. She comes across as someone who would give her rigid ideas priority over anything else.

Chartreuser · 12/07/2019 08:04

The worst medical treatment I have had bar none as been by female obs/gynaes.

Whilst being stitched desperately I'll after 38 hour labour and whilst being simultaneously tested by cardiologists one decided to shove her finger up my a*se. 'just checking for tears' she said.
'next time you need to do they I suggest you ask the woman before shoving your finger up there' said I.

FannyCann · 12/07/2019 08:05

It's pretty standard practice at many hospitals to withhold pumped breastmilk until the maternity
tox screen is back, (which is typically less than 24 hours).

What if the mother is breastfeeding a baby that is perfectly capable of breastfeeding? Is that not allowed until the Tox screen?

Interesting to get a US view George There are obviously many regulations and policies which we don't have here.

ComeAndDance · 12/07/2019 08:06

@GeorgeFayne I dint think you can say at the same time that

  • this guy was the only one available (rural hospital etc...)
and
  • if she has had her ante natal appointment, this would have been flagged up and there would have been no issue as things wouod have been organised.

As this was an emergency, I dint think ‘things being flagged’ would have made a difference in this case.

FannyCann · 12/07/2019 08:13

I realise it is a completely different system of care, very Doctor led compared to the midwife led care in the UK (even for a high risk birth the midwife stands as an advocate for the woman and often polices the Doctors). But are the nurse attendants not trained at all in things like vaginal examination? Would that male resident really be the only professional able to do a VE on that shift?

Erythronium · 12/07/2019 08:41

The website appears dodgy, but the question is did this happen to her? It looks like it did, and to other women too.

sakura184 · 12/07/2019 12:45

Cannot believe people on here are calling that website dodgy. Like this wouldn't happen: or hasn't happened to hundreds of thousands of women

OP posts:
sakura184 · 12/07/2019 12:48

Cue tiresome derail about websites instead of interesting and productive discussion about how women are treated in birth

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 12/07/2019 13:01

A poster on here has explained about vitamin K and cutting the cord. This woman sounded obsessed about sticking to her ideal of a perfect birth regardless of the outcome for her baby.

sakura184 · 12/07/2019 13:04

She felt violated by the male nurse, is the point of the article. Thankfully I'd read up on the behaviour of male ob/gyns and nurses and opted for (statistically safer) homebirths especially to avoid this treatment

I can find dozens more articles about this type of birth trauma, with or without extra references to vitamin K shots, which is another annoying derail

OP posts:
InglouriousBasterd · 12/07/2019 13:11

They don’t just need blood for drug tests - they need to test for transmittable disease. There are many cases of babies being born to mothers who have ‘unassisted pregnancies’ who also have HIV and it is discovered too late.

The care sounds awful, and I really feel for her having such a terrible birth, but honestly I can’t blame them for calling CPS. To them, she was refusing everything that was needed to ensure her premature baby’s safe delivery and survival.

sakura184 · 12/07/2019 13:13

AnotherAdultHumanFemale

That's true, this type of degrading treatment of female patients by male professionals isn't isolated to birth is it

OP posts:
Teddybear45 · 12/07/2019 13:16

This entire story was fabricated: the woman wasn’t a sexual abuse survivor, and there were clear safeguarding concerns because she was refusing necessarily medical treatment. Of course CPS was called. This story was always about the lady wanting to refuse medical treatment (it’s Colorado and there are many women who would rather die or disable their kids than seen necessarily treatment there- due to fundamental ‘christian’ ideologies).

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.