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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The kid who argued that there are only two “genders” permanently expelled.

178 replies

Evenquieterlife33 · 02/07/2019 17:05

So the story of the child who stuck to his guns and argued that there are only two genders, ( I’m thinking read sex here.) and recorded the conversation with the member of staff who argued that “not all policies are scientific.” Has now been permanently expelled according to twitter. Wtf. I’m sure the school will say hi him can’t have children recording staff. God forbid the outside world might know what kids are being indoctrinated into.

OP posts:
OvaHere · 03/07/2019 23:59

It's gone completely now.

Needmoresleep · 04/07/2019 00:07

The crowd funder was in Canadian dollars. Canada seems a troubled country. TRAs seem to wield real power, yet there are some articulate right wingers like Jordan Peterson and this bloke, and of course Meghan Murphy. It does not sound appealing.

Needmoresleep · 04/07/2019 00:10

Crowdfunders for 'top surgery' or 'bottom surgery' are presumably ok.

Not though for a student who got thrown out of school for speaking honestly.

mimivanne · 04/07/2019 00:28

the fear is palapable in all of this

mimivanne · 04/07/2019 00:29

palpable even

GrumpyCatLives · 04/07/2019 00:31

This is getting scary. I hope Murray has a good support network.

ZebrasAreBras · 04/07/2019 00:32

GrumpCatLives - yes.

I sincerely hope so too.

Lamaha · 04/07/2019 05:33

My donation was refunded.

Somebody needs to get the exam board they use involved to show what is in the syllabus about this, typical questions on this part of the syllabus, expected proper answers and scoring scheme, along with an answer based on the info taught at this school and the (poor!) score it would receive if written as an answer in the exams.

I would like to know what is in the Scottish biology syllabus.
Now that he has been expelled the school should be sued; this would be a great test case. I really hope some lawyer takes it on pro bono.
Though they say he was expelled for filming, not for the content of what he said, it's obviously far more than that. He obviously committed a thought crime. But if the syllabus itself does not contradict what Murray said, how can it be that? But then I am not a legal expert.

2Rebecca · 04/07/2019 05:52

I find the closing down of this troubling and depressing. A local SGP branch posted this yesterday too.
greens.scot/blog/why-we-must-support-trans-and-non-binary-people-s-rights
Dissent is being shut down everywhere. You must believe pseudoscience and trans ideology or be shit down.

2Rebecca · 04/07/2019 05:53

Shut down but shit down as appropriate I suppose

OvaHere · 04/07/2019 07:43

It seems like it was closed for 'violating terms and conditions' the guy who started it had his account banned also. Gofundme have offered no explanation of what T&Cs were broken.

This was just another Woke Stasi pile on I'm guessing. What a shit show.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 04/07/2019 07:49

Go fund me also removed Israel Folau’e thing, not sure exact reasons why!

FormerMediocreMale · 04/07/2019 09:03

He might be better off setting up a crowd justice fund raiser or set up a website with PayPal for direct payments?

If he has organisations in touch hopefully they will be discussing options of what to do and where to go next. I hope this doesnt just blow over though as the school will be hoping.

mimivanne · 04/07/2019 11:02

Had a message from the go fund me organiser, the $4000 raised was refunded without explanation and he will comment when he has more information

2Rebecca · 04/07/2019 20:27

A new fund has been set up although it sounds as though less money will be needed because Murray has found a college he can go to but will need help with transport and other costs. Really pleased he has found somewhere.
There are a couple of articles on Breitbart on it and it does concern me that the intolerance of other views and identity politics of the left and the way people accused of wrongthink get demonised and excluded will lead to people going to right wing forums as the only place where you can express an opinion without getting banned if your opinion is the "wrong one".
We used to be able to debate and discuss ideas freely in this country. I feel over invested in this issue, partly because my son could easily have been Murray and partly because it is all so chilling and intolerant and frightening. "Inclusive" policies should not lead to a teenager being excluded, neither should videoing a teacher. It's not his fault the video went viral because the teacher came across as such a plonker.

FormerMediocreMale · 04/07/2019 21:45

2Rebecca

That's good he's sorted out a place to continue his education.

I don't think this should end there though otherwise things will only get worse. Parents need to make a stand. I hope SSAUK or similar can also help stop this, schools should be educating not indoctrinating.

2Rebecca · 04/07/2019 22:58

Agree, if I were a parent at Mearns Academy I'd be angry and scared. I'm a GP and regularly see teachers as patients who have to put up with verbal and physical abuse from kids and are just expected to cope with it. This kid makes 1 video that goes viral through no fault of his own and gets excluded. It is appalling. I can understand him being suspended but this should not have led to him being excluded at such an important time in his education. He didn't make a fool of the teacher, he just allowed the teacher to make a fool of himself. Inclusivity is not inclusive if it excludes anyone who doesn't believe in queer theory and biology. Including only people who believe what you believe is not being inclusive.

2Rebecca · 04/07/2019 23:00

And who does believe in biology that should have said. There are only 2 gametes.

fudgefan · 05/07/2019 10:39

The council is apparently arguing that Murray is no longer of compulsory education age and his schooling 'visa' has just been allowed to expire, although he had planned to do 6th year and was therefore still on the school roll. I think this argument (and the fact that Mearns Academy may have been a parental placing request for a non-catchment school) is a red herring and the school/LA still have to go through the formal procedures to exclude him (which can be a minefield). The way this has been handled cetainly engages UNCRC/ECHR rights and the much lauded but entirely risible GIRFEC policy, both of which allegedly protect young people up to 18 (and sometimes beyond) from discrimination.

There is statutory guidance on exclusions, revised since this version but the core elements are the same:

"Exclusion From Schools In Scotland: Guidance to Education Authorities Authorities Circular 8/03
Section 2: Legislative position on exclusion
Power to exclude
The power to exclude a pupil from a school and the circumstances under which a pupil may be excluded are set out in Regulation 4 of the Schools General (Scotland) Regulations 1975, as amended [SI 1975/1135: the relevant amending Regulations are the Schools General (Scotland) (Amendment) Regulations 1982 (SI 1982/56) and the Schools General (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 1982 (SI 1982/1735)].
The power to exclude - and therefore legal responsibility for exclusion - rests with the education authority. It is, however, open to an education authority to devolve the power to exclude to senior management level within a school.
Regulation 4 states that an education authority shall not exclude a pupil from school unless the authority:
"are of the opinion that the parent of the pupil refuses or fails to comply, or to allow the pupil to comply, with the rules, regulations, or disciplinary requirements of the school"; or
"consider that in all the circumstances to allow the pupil to continue attendance at the school would be likely to be seriously detrimental to order and discipline in the school or the educational well-being of the pupils there."
Education authorities, when deciding whether exclusion is necessary, must have regard to the particular facts and circumstances surrounding individual incidents and/or pupils.
Exclusion from school of a pupil other than in conformity with the terms of the Schools General (Scotland) Regulations 1975 has no statutory backing. Failure to comply with the Regulations in such circumstances may render the authority open to legal challenge by the parent/s, or the pupil (where the pupil is a young person or is a child with legal capacity in terms of the Age of Legal Capacity (Scotland) Act 1991) or to action by Scottish Ministers under section 70 of the Education (Scotland) Act 1980, as amended.
School exclusions must also operate within the duties imposed by anti-discrimination, human rights and other relevant legislation. Therefore, education authorities and schools should keep fully aware of developments."

IMO the actions of both school and LA (as reported) have been disproportionate and manifestly unfair, amounting to discrimination on the basis of holding one or more protected characteristics. I am aware that there are 'comparator' rule-breaking pupils in Aberdeenshire Council schools (some of whom have committed criminal assaults) who have not received such draconian sanctions, so Murray has undoubtedly been treated less favourably in having what was a justifiable temporary exclusion commuted to exclusion for life.

I'd urge Murray and his parents to take legal advice, appeal the exclusion (if only to have it erased from his school record, which will follow him with possibly dire consequences), and look at a section 70 complaint against the council for (a) facilitating the indoctrination of children; (b) persecuting whistleblower pupils who have no equal protection under the law for making public interest disclosures in relation to schools and authorities whose policies are breaching the the Equality Act by using 'guidance' that has been disavowed by the Scottish Government; and (c) condoning schools' use of social media to promote one protected characteristic above others in contravention of its public sector equality duty.

An added dimension in Scotland is that the teacher involved is a guidance teacher who doubles as Murray's 'named person' and will have been recording 'risks' on his pupil record based on his own and the authority's determination of wellbeing (which may have been shared across 'services'). Given the teacher's tenuous grasp of biology, it doesn't bode well...

The Supreme Court ruled this unfettered data collection/sharing unlawful in 2016, but it is still happening in practice (due to premature implementation of the illegal snooping scheme) and the human rights impact of such pupil (and family) profiling (to facilitate 'early intervention', i.e. non-consensual interference with Convention rights below the legal threshold) is the subject of a petition currently being considered by the Scottish Parliament.

FormerMediocreMale · 05/07/2019 10:47

Great post fudgefan and I agree that the family should take this further.

fudgefan · 05/07/2019 11:12

Thanks, FormerMediocreMale.
Aberdeenshire Council's attempts to close this down are not going to succeed. They need to be held to account.

2Rebecca · 05/07/2019 11:48

I think the council made things worse by excluding him / not allowing him to return. This would have died down if theyd allowed him back

nauticant · 05/07/2019 11:50

It's depressing how "loss of face" can prompt organisations to go for the worst option and not be fussed over how it might trash a young person's education.

FormerMediocreMale · 05/07/2019 12:11

Far worse loss of face now he has been permanently excluded. The school and council need to be held to account for the sake of not just Murray but all other pupils under their care.

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