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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST

245 replies

Muststopfaffing · 25/06/2019 09:21

In response to this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3621239-Being-a-homosexual-female-in-a-community-of-queer-people-transbians-and-penis-inclusionary-lesbians

I want to create a new thread to invite our lesbian sisters to tell non lesbian women how we can help support them and be allies to them through the current struggle and abuse from within their own community. I don’t have anything specific in mind and would love it to be led by those that need support, in whatever form that may be.

It should go without saying (but just in case anyone is tempted to do otherwise) that this is support for biological women who are same sex attracted and nothing else.

OP posts:
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sakura184 · 23/07/2019 15:57

The set up in Wales sounds lovely, very friendly. Is Pride month a big thing there?

Umm No lesbians tend to go to Pride in Manchester or Chester in England when it's on. I know some like to go and others think it's a waste of time and don't see the point in making lesbianism political.

Funny that the non-political lesbians love L fest, which they regard as just enjoying being in a woman friendly environment. So Maybe they are inadvertently being more political than they think.

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 15:58

Also, I don't see lesbian forums as obsessed with trans people as you are on here. What does that tell you?

What are lesbian forums? Can you link?

LangCleg · 23/07/2019 15:59

Also, I don't see lesbian forums as obsessed with trans people as you are on here. What does that tell you?

I'm imagining something entirely different to what it tells you.

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Datun · 23/07/2019 16:00

*If the likes of Get The L Out have any real support then please tell me about the thousands of lesbians who have been in contact expressing their concerns about trans people and then I might think there's an issue. Perhaps people on here would be better off getting out from behind their keyboards, meeting a few lesbians in the real world (I mean somewhere apart from a WPUK type event...).

Again with the you couldn't make it up logic.

"Please tell me about all the swathes of lesbians who've got a problem with this, who I don't believe exist. But don't go anywhere near any meeting where these swathes of lesbians are gathering..."

🤣

And, Teflon, good luck with the rubbish logic to erase sexual orientation as a concept, ("no one cares, and even when they do, you shouldn't listen").

I'm sure you'll get tons of support.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/07/2019 16:01

I think (genuinely) all female groups are important to many women, I know I really value the ones I’m a member of

I help to organise one, so probably by doing that I’m tangentially supporting lesbians

I do regard lesbians as the canaries in the coal mine regarding women’s rights, so it’s important to understand what challenges they face and support them where possible

Datun · 23/07/2019 16:01

Also, I don't see lesbian forums as obsessed with trans people as you are on here. What does that tell you?

Interesting.

Do you know any lesbian forums, public ones, which do not admit men identifying as women?

Or bars. Or festivals. Or clubs.

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 16:11

widespread support among lesbians for the views expressed on these forums appear fairly bogus

I don't think anyone here is claiming anything about figures.
This is just a thread supporting those lesbians who do regard these things as a problem.

TheInebriati · 23/07/2019 16:17

Yet again I'm baffled by people who rely on The Equality Act who try to undermine it.
The Act defines lesbians as women who are same sex attracted. People who are attracted to both sexes are defined as bisexual.

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 16:18

Teflon has piqued my interest about lesbian forums so I've just googled "lesbian chat forums". I signed up for the first one and it immediately took me to the grossest porny shit.

sakura184 · 23/07/2019 16:20

That kind of gives lesbians a bad rep. I wonder if these lesbian chat forums are actually run by men 🤔

BickerinBrattle · 23/07/2019 16:22

The lesbian forums on Reddit, but for one, are all moderated by transwomen. Autostraddle, which began as a site for lesbians, is now run by transwomen. Almost all feminist sites are owned by men. After Ellen, too, began as a site for lesbians and was taken over by transwomen, but at last that site has been purchased by a lesbian who is again publishing it for lesbians and has a great deal to say about the problem posed by transbians in lesbian spaces, for which their increasing readership is grateful.

There is virtually NO lesbian representation, and certainly very little spending of monies for lesbians, in any of the major LGBT organisations. In fact, lesbians are being thrown out of leadership positions in such organisations — see for instance Martina Navritolova and Julia Beck.

So I would suggest that the fact that lesbians are being silenced and their voices being sock-puppeted online by transactivists means that you cannot gauge lesbian support for transactivism by what you read online.

A more interesting gauge is the recent study done showing that something like only 9% of lesbians would consider a transwoman as a sexual partner. That tells me that 91% of lesbians do not believe TW are actually women.

I’m quite sure that most lesbians, as is true of most feminists, want TW protected from discrimination in employment and housing and want TW safe from male violence. It’s possible to legislate for that without creating laws that say TWAW; it’s possible to protect TW as TW while also protecting women as women.

It is the insistence that TW ARE women in each and every respect and therefore entitled to everything women have fought for to alleviate millennia of subjugation TW were never subject to that is the sticking point.

That, and the issue of forcing people to believe something counter to material reality.

Whatisthisfuckery · 23/07/2019 18:12

I don’t know of any lesbian forums anymore, which is a shame as I’ve met some good friends online. If anyone knows of any, and I mean genuine ones, please could they DM me a link?

I think what Teflon is trying to say is that the opinions of all the lesbians who post on here don’t count, because we aren’t all the other lesbians. Ergo any lesbian who posts will be automatically discounted for the reason that they are posting. It’s ridiculous logic, designed to dismiss anyone who disagrees because only acceptable woke groupthink counts, and anyone who goes against it must be an outlier. It’s a total waste of time to engage with so I’m not engaging anymore.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/07/2019 18:20

The whole intervention from teflon was flipping weird tbh

truthisarevolutionaryact · 23/07/2019 18:25

Indeed Bernard. An advanced search usually throws up enough information to distinguish between someone genuinely wanting to explore an issue versus a GF.

wacademia · 23/07/2019 18:26

I will ask the lesbians I know what we bi and straight women can do to help at the next meeting of the super-secret underground women's group that I attend. It's underground because that's the only way we can keep penis-havers out.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/07/2019 19:03

Is it the heat do you think?

truthisarevolutionaryact · 23/07/2019 19:17

I think it's a growing panic about the failure of #nodebate Bernard. Sport, safeguarding, JY, the Tavistock scandal, the NSPCC, Karen White, the "hobbies" of the advisers to the government and organisations being exposed, acceptance without exception being taken literally by paedophiles and fetishists and all the 'this never happens' happening - in public and openly reported. Add to this expecting society to accept a redefinition of same sex attraction and being furious when people don't agree
All these forbidden conversations happening - and this week even on the BBC and in the Guardian! In open defiance of the rooolz Grin

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 23/07/2019 19:19

It does feel a bit frantic doesn’t it?

stealthsquirrelnutkin · 23/07/2019 21:33

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sakura184 · 23/07/2019 21:35

I must admit I got a bit anxious about me posting About L fest on here. Like it's going to be infiltrated next year

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 23/07/2019 22:23

I'm still grieving Michfest
And Women in Tune

LangCleg · 23/07/2019 22:48

In (dis)honour of Teflon, I thought I would post this interesting bit of history. Lesbians have been objecting since 1975! This fascinating Twitter thread is quoting from a letter/article by the Lesbian Rising Collective & Gay Men’s Alliance published in Drag Magazine, vol. 5, no. 18, pp. 36, 37, 39, 42 & 47. 1975.

twitter.com/rdqb80/status/1153387188962385924

Do read!

truthisarevolutionaryact · 23/07/2019 22:54

Thank you LangCleg . Shame that people didn't listen.

2BthatUnnoticed · 23/07/2019 23:08

Ben (GNC centric) is a young lesbian who was a transman for a few years - here are her words

Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST
Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST
Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST
2BthatUnnoticed · 23/07/2019 23:11

Lesbian erasure - “invisible unless its happening to you”

Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST
Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST
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