Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST

[Muststopfaffing]

In response to this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3621239-Being-a-homosexual-female-in-a-community-of-queer-people-transbians-and-penis-inclusionary-lesbians

I want to create a new thread to invite our lesbian sisters to tell non lesbian women how we can help support them and be allies to them through the current struggle and abuse from within their own community. I don’t have anything specific in mind and would love it to be led by those that need support, in whatever form that may be.

It should go without saying (but just in case anyone is tempted to do otherwise) that this is support for biological women who are same sex attracted and nothing else.

I think the issue is, that transwomen being from a particular socio economic group (white, male, middle class), and living in a particular geographical area (the Home Counties?) are so far removed from a lot of lesbians lives that it's not actually yet become an issue for many lesbians.

I think transwomen far over exaggerate the amount of contact and attention they actually get from lesbians.

This is why it appears as though your average lesbian isn't bothered. If a transwoman does step on a lesbians toes however, then she does begin to regard it as an issue.

I dunno Floral, I can’t get teflon to talk to me

I’m beginning to suspect that they did think that the thread was about the inhabitants of Lesbos and are too embarrassed to back down now

This is a support thread, isn't it? Why is is teflon being allowed to shit and sneer all over it?

Yes, it's supposed to be a support thread but given the lack of responses indicate most lesbians don't seem to need your support it's perfectly valid to discuss whether this forum represents as many lesbians as it claims to.

Seriously, can you guys see me?

To put it another way, I've never heard of any lesbian I know sleeping with a transwoman.

And the only transwoman I've seen in my area was in the precinct in town holding hands with someone who appeared to be his (embarrassed) wife

So I think a lot of the talk about sleeping with lesbians is all made up and in transwomens heads and that's why it seems to the onlooker as though lesbians aren't too bothered

, I think the ones that support trans women do so because they haven't yet personally been affected by it. When they do get affected by it however, they tend to get very angry indeed. Yet another young lesbian has opened a YouTube about her peak trans moment

most lesbians don't seem to need your support

How do you know? Are you new? Only there are a lot of lesbians talking about the cotton ceiling on these boards, frequently. Announcing that lesbians don’t want our support based on this thread is a bit, well silly really. Who the hell are you? A spokesperson?

And yes lesbians do know exactly who is sleeping with whom, and when, and where. That's partly what the secret legion cabul is all about:

Who the hell are you? A spokesperson?

There are plenty of heterosexuals who seem to have appointed themselves as spokeswomen and saviours of lesbians on these forums.

I dont think that because it might appear that only a few women who may or may not be lesbian have used this thread to post actual suggestions of ways to support lesbians.

The thread was started in response to a really moving and informative personal statement by a lesbian who was feeling betrayed but what she had thought of as her community.

Quite honestly if there was only one post a week with an idea or sharing info that would be great.

I do know from sharing the original post on mumsnet via facebook it has been hugely welcomed. And this thread has some women, who may or may not be lesbians, get a bit of a warm feeling that someone on mumsnet cared enough.

But, however great mumsnet is, and the discussion it allows there will be women who wont feel able to share on a public forum.

But even knowing that L Fest took place (which I think not many knew) is just great! I thought they had been erased

I think the ones that support trans women do so because they haven't yet personally been affected by it. When they do get affected by it however...

Doesn't indicate much solidarity that statement. Are you suggesting that lesbians, who have fought tooth and nail against injustice and inequality, are going to ignore something that is supposedly such a huge threat to them until it affects them personally? Sounds more like a way of covering up the fact that you know most lesbians don't support the views on these forums.

It's always worth considering whether these new posters on the board are attempting to gather information for the creeps that monitor this board with their spreadsheets? People should be cautious before sharing any personal information - especially when it's to justify a goady challenge from a tra.

Tef what is your problem? This thread is for any lesbians who want it - could be one or 100, it’s worthwhile either way.

From my own experience, sometimes people who need support cannot post, and just lurk. The thread is for them too.

I’m in disbelief that someone could read the posts on the original thread and this one, and respond as you have.

Please start your own thread if you feel a burning need to discuss this. This support thread is not the place.

2BthatUnnoticed well said.

Well said 2B

Are you suggesting that lesbians, who have fought tooth and nail against injustice and inequality, are going to ignore something that is supposedly such a huge threat to them until it affects them personally?

But that's what I'm saying. Most of the lesbians i know are apolitical. They do know injustice when they see it though and I suspect being told they had to sleep with someone they didn't fancy would put a major spanner in the works.

But transwomen just don't have access to the lesbians I know and I can't think how they would get access. Online I suppose? Everybody brings their conquests to the legion and the fact there has never been a transwoman brought there tells me there are either none in the area or the lesbians are just excluding them by default.

If you told them they were being transphobic for excluding transwomen they'd probably ask you what that meant, and if you explained to them it meant they weren't allowed to purposely exclude transwomen they still probably wouldn't know what you meant -- the concept that they must sleep with someone they aren't sexually interested in is a bizarre concept that transwomen have essentially concocted, which thankfully doesn't seem to be affecting many lesbians because they just block undesirables from their dating pool.

Sakura sorry to be all school-marmy, but to avoid derailing the support thread, perhaps you or tef could start another thread to continue the interesting side discussion?

And I see you Bernard - you haven’t gone invisible

Phew!

Eh? I'm confused. I came on this thread because it was being accused of being too heterosexual and not representing lesbian views. That's literally why I'm on here, to give a bit of balance. Now I'm being told my efforts were a derail?

Last year? maybe longer, there was a very powerful thread from a young lesbian at university quite desperate about the male infiltration of all the lesbian / women's groups. I often wonder how things went for her.

Yes there are plenty of lesbians online , especially on YouTube who have very strong views.
It seems to be true, also, that there are quite a few lesbians who don't really pay attention to the issues, or are openly supportive of trans rights.
There might be a socio economic divide is what i'm saying. Transwomen tend to be educated, middle class and possibly quite wealthy: they will be over represented in universities for sure

I’m genuinely confused as to wtf Teflon is trying to convey here, or more to the point, why they feel the need to tell us off at all.

Do you have a dog in the fight here Tef? Are you a female homosexual?

I’m rather pissed off that HQ are allowing this kind of derailing on a support thread for lesbians. If there was a similar support thread for another minority it wouldn’t be allowed to happen. The fact that is is being allowed should tell you all you need to know about the current targeting and erasure of lesbians.

Could all our straight and bi sisters please report Teflon’s malicious derailing and tell HQ that the targeting and undermining of lesbians is not in the spirit, and that you feel that it’s unacceptable that they continue to enable it. Then report every single poster who comes on here with the specific intention of shouting over and berating lesbians and the women who support us.

No, no - they were/are appreciated and interesting (please do share more!), was more just referring to that particular point being debated. If that makes sense

The set up in Wales sounds lovely, very friendly. Is Pride month a big thing there?

(Oops hadn’t refreshed - that comment was to sakura from upthread)

Could all our straight and bi sisters please report Teflon’s malicious derailing and tell HQ that the targeting and undermining of lesbians is not in the spirit...

There's no targeting of lesbians here, just pointing out that claims on here about widespread support among lesbians for the views expressed on these forums appear fairly bogus. Also, I don't see lesbian forums as obsessed with trans people as you are on here. What does that tell you?