Supporting our lesbian sisters THREAD EDITED BY MNHQ AT OP'S REQUEST

[Muststopfaffing]

In response to this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3621239-Being-a-homosexual-female-in-a-community-of-queer-people-transbians-and-penis-inclusionary-lesbians

I want to create a new thread to invite our lesbian sisters to tell non lesbian women how we can help support them and be allies to them through the current struggle and abuse from within their own community. I don’t have anything specific in mind and would love it to be led by those that need support, in whatever form that may be.

It should go without saying (but just in case anyone is tempted to do otherwise) that this is support for biological women who are same sex attracted and nothing else.

The 'Cotton Ceiling' and the belief of some trans-activists that lesbians must either accept penetrative sex from trans woman 'lesbians' with fully functioning male genitalia, or be labelled as transphobes, and abused, is one of the things about the whole trans issue that makes me most cross.

I am not a lesbian, but I support ANY woman's right to decide what does and does not go in or near her vagina!

This actual lesbian thinks we need all the bloody help we can get!!!!

Thanks Empress! I don't think this is about sexual preferences, lesbians are being targeted because they're women. If it was, we'd see equal criticism of gay males for not wanting sex with female bodied people who identify as gay men and we don't. So it's a women's issue and as a women I want to help any way I can.

I'll get my t-shirt out

Count me in.
Women have had equal rights for 50 years, and it turned out they were only on loan after all.

Posie has done quite a long thread on her page about how we can help support lesbians, hers in reference to Pride particular, but same point: www.facebook.com/theposieparker/posts/2596815823771715

I am reminded of the times where (e.g.) Christians have stood in a circle round a mosque to let Muslims pray. That kind of silent solidarity to let the oppressed group get on with their activity while not having to worry about watching their backs.

Unfortunately I am on a 3 hour conference call Friday so I can't be in london either

Unfortunately I’m not able to attend next friday either. I have a longstanding engagement and I’ll be in the middle of packing to move house.

I would love to see my straight sisters out at pride, marching alongside lesbians and showing their support.

It all comes back to the fact that we’re being targetted, not because we’re homosexual, but because we are female and homosexual, but having the experience of losing our spaces and being bullied, guilt tripped and coerced into unwanted sex is not just a lesbian one. All women to a greater or lesser degree put up with this throughout their lives, and just because it’s lesbians at this particular moment in time,doesn’t mean it will remain that way. The misogyny which is driving this movement will not confine itself to simply erasing lesbians. The complete submission of all women is what they seek, not just 1% of us.

Straight and bi sisters I meant to say.

I bought a Lesbian female homosexual t shirt to add to my ever expanding GC collection of tops. I wanted to wear it to encourage conversation around the subject but have felt put off wearing it by someone who said I shouldn’t wear it if I’m not a lesbian as it’s not my battle and a bit insulting to actual lesbians.

I’d love to know what any ‘actual lesbians’ on here actually think?!

If you believe that lesbians are female homosexuals then you should wear the t-shirt with pride. In exactly the same way that straight people are welcome to wear rainbows and cheer on pride parades.

I personally would be delighted to see straight GC friends standing alongside lesbian protesters at pride, making it more difficult for the rabid bullies to howl in their faces.

I strongly suspect that most of those bullies are snivelling cowards, and that their desire be part of a baying mob would evaporate if they were facing a substantial number of determined women instead of a massively outnumbered, tiny group of bravely defiant lesbians.

I have marched and protested about this issue before, but can't make it this time, much to my dismay. I support you. I fully support you.

I’ve just been for a lovely long boozy lunch with Sweary Godmother, so apologies for any incoherence but thank you to everyone who’s acknowledged my post, whether you can come next Friday or not.

Another one for ‘no’ to ‘ally’ (always makes me think of ‘familiars’). Sisters (with an S) haha.

Empress - I can't come tomorrow either but if you keep letting us know other protests we can support as and when or of things that we can do then I will do what I can.

In the meantime I like the idea of donating to GetTheLOut so will do that for now.

All the best for tomorrow - let us know how it goes. And love from MN to Sweary - she's an inspiration!

MsJeminaPuddleduck It's not tomorrow, it's next week.

Gold Star lesbian here, and if I had to define the help I want from my straight sisters it would be this:

Stop excluding our trans friends. I get that you think you're helping the cause. I get that some of you believe you're protecting me from penises. And that's... well-intentioned, I guess? But trust, I'm old enough and gay enough to know who I want to sleep with, and what genital configurations attract or repel me.

When you gatekeep against transwomen, when you define womanhood in a way that's dependent on biology, you don't help me. All you do is give more ammo to the straight dudes who want to keep us down. Stand with me as a friend and embrace women in all their forms.

Or ignore this, call me brainwashed, whatever. But if you do, don't pretend like you're my ally.

Oh the gold star lesbian, seen her here before

Funny how she knew to turn up on one thread of so many. What are the chances, eh?

Not really sure how she's defining 'gold star' tbh seeing as she doesn't define a woman by biology. Doesn't that make everyone potentially a gold star lesbian?

when you define womanhood in a way that's dependent on biology

You know it’s kind of hard to define it any other way, when all the discrimination, abuse, disadvantage and assault I have faced during my entire life has been based upon my biology.

I’d like to think it’s based on my hair colour or earring choices ( so I could just change them and make it all go away ) but sadly the facts point otherwise.

Exculpatrix
I did ask in my OP that this be a thread for those of us who want to offer support to be able to show that we want to and for lesbians who do need support to tell us what we can do to help. If you don’t like my definition of lesbian as female homosexual, that’s fine. I’m not going to define your sexuality or indeed gender identity for you (as I presume you wouldn’t for me). What I do ask is that you respect the purpose of the thread. If you don’t agree or don’t like it, fine, don’t engage. But to come here and deliberately disrespect the stated purpose of the thread and who it is for is arrogant and ill mannered.

For those of you who don’t like ally, I agree with the connotations but couldn’t think of a suitable alternative at the time. I’m open to contacting MNHQ to change the title to something better....Sisters? Comrades? Wenches? Any ideas welcome!

Haha, I’m just trying to work out what a gold star lesbian who doesn’t define womanhood in a way that’s dependant on biology is. I’m interested to know precisely what criteria you’re measuring your big shiny gold star against?

I’m also laughing heartily at the idea of a gold star lesbian turning up on a thread to berate other lesbians, (who may or may not be gold star but who don’t feel the need to do some weird pulling rank shit) for being nasty and not wanting penis having or former penis having, xy chromosome possessing male wo/men trying to bully us out of our lesbian spaces and into the bedroom.

‘I’m a gold star lesbian’ is an interesting preface to bollocking lesbians for not liking bollocks, I’ll give you that.

”But trust, I'm old enough and gay enough to know who I want to sleep with, and what genital configurations attract or repel me.”

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that you, and other lesbians don’t know what genital configurations attract or repel you and them, @exculpatrix. But is it right that lesbian women who are not attracted to penises (even when they are called ‘lady dicks’ ) are being told they are nasty trans phones and that they can, if they put their minds to it, get over their genital preferences, and ‘cope just fine’ with PIV sex? Do you think that is OK? Is it OK that there are some trans women, with fully functioning penises, who want to call themselves lesbians and want to pressure lesbian women into having penetrative sex with them? Women whose preference is for female genitalia and biological women.

Call me crazy, but I think sex should be something you find wildly pleasurable, not something you just ‘cope’ with.