Is female impersonation/drag offensive?

[dannybb]

Hi. As a teenage hairdressing apprentice I used to do a drag act in my spare time - a few decades ago. With more time on my hands I'm now thinking of returning to female impersonation - doing drag queen bingo and entertainment mainly in old peoples homes etc.

While I am (and always will be) very respectful of women I'm wondering if the era of men dressing as women to provide entertainment has had its day.

Has this now become offensive or inappropriate?

Any responses much appreciated!

I did actually just look up John Maclean (wow to his makeup skills!) but Ermm am I looking at the wrong person?

He is most certainly wearing contour and highlighter. His lips are definitely enhanced and overdrawn and his eyebrows are fully arched.

He’s amazing at makeup and I absolutely love that he embraces the beauty of makeup without letting homophobes and critics stop him, but don’t lie.

Merrymouse

Yes, I agree with that. In some ways it reminds me of intersex issues, it's been hijacked a little for ends other than what it was originally intended for. Though I think some of the performers have been quite happy to take it in that direction. I wonder if there is a faction that is unhappy about that?

@Earlywalker

Then you've fundamentally misunderstood radical feminism. Its about understanding that women don't make choices in a vacuum. That there are social economic and political pressures that lead to those decisions, one of those pressures being class. Obv this is why surrogates are coming from disenfranchised groups of women, not female politicians or wealthy Swiss women. Come on this is feminism 101 and I feel I'm being trolled that I have to point this out.

Similarly there are social pressures to put on make up to access gainful employment. It may be a class issue in that you have more "power" over your look if you have a nice middle class job as a lawyer. If you're applying for a role as a make up store assistant you have less choice in your appearance.

Gosh, what's going on just around the pupils of his eyes?

NottonightJosepheen
Why am I now picturing lassoffivie frantically searching for images of John Maclean, makeup artists extraordinaire, that look extravagant and ostentatious, to try to make a lie of what I have said*

What a vivid imagination you have.

Why would I "frantically search" for anything? It is on page 7 of this thread. You posted it. I remembered John McLean had been mentioned. I copied and posted exactly what you posted.

twicemummy

Feminist theory doesn't tell us anything about how we are to understand theatre, or what it is meant to accomplish for us as human beings. It doesn't tell us about the science of being a woman or being human. It doesn't tell us about class analysis either, and it didn't produce the idea of appropriations or blackface being offensive. It's very much dependent on areas of thought which focus on different elements or which have a larger scope. And those things themselves can be under question - we may have different ideas about the role of theatre, or the concept of appropriation. If your argument is dependent on your understanding of appropriation and I disagree you will have to take a step outside your feminist analysis.

Feminism often makes is worst, most mistaken analyses when it forgets to look at the bigger human, or cultural, or social , or scientific picture. As do all forms of analysis really, any type which focuses mainly on one element has to carefully place that within larger contexts or it will tend to misunderstand itself significantly - when analysis is formalised this step is usually included explicitly.

There seems to be a white line around the pupil on the left side (his right). Not important. I envy his skill, but he must have spent a fortune on brushes. It's like watching someone do an oil painting, isn't it?

I think the over exaggerated look is dying out in drag anyway though, of course there are still loads around, but a lot of drag queens have a very similar style of make-up to John Maclean nowadays, or it is more conceptual and about artistry. Drag Queens are expected to have a lot more than a look to make people laugh or be entertaining, I don't think most of them rely on that nearly as much anymore.

The white ring around his eye - I assume he's using one of these selfie light things.

I tried to crop it but... Meh.

@Goosefoot

The best feminists are scientists. I loved Cordelia Fine's book "Delusions of Gender" and how she debunked every single piece of "brain science". Feminist theory is based on science, on biology. It's not ideology like trans or Christianity. It's rooted in women's material reality- our biological selves and our material oppression

Feminism does none of those things. It doesn't fail to look at the bigger picture. If you want an overall and international class analysis Mary Daly is probably your best bet. If you want to understand how patriarchy manifests in literature: Kate Millett. Want to know about how the Gentry took over women's land land and how men took over medicine,, read Caliban and the Witch. Want to know why women vote right wing? Try Dworkin. I could go on. Feminism covers every aspect of women's rights, and invariably women's rights are children's rights as we learn in Sheila Jeffrey's Spinsters book. Or rather the rights that children have such as the age of consent were fought for by, specifically, women's rights activists

The white ring around his eye - I assume he's using one of these selfie light things

Ah didn't know that was a thing.

Place marking to read your brilliant critiques later.

Obv this is why surrogates are coming from disenfranchised groups of women, not female politicians or wealthy Swiss women.

You are right this should be obvious.

Good that you have spelled it out tho'..

And I agree with you about the trolling, it's pathetic.

And I agree with you about the trolling, it's pathetic.

I've been banned once, so can't say what I think without risking another one.

The best feminists are scientists. I loved Cordelia Fine's book "Delusions of Gender" and how she debunked every single piece of "brain science"

Is Cordelia Fine a scientist? She opines in her books which are popular science but her background is history, philosophy and psychology.

Thought this knowledgeable individual's take on how some people use drag in relation to children was instructive and probably useful to record on a thread like this:

twitter.com/JonKUhlerLPC

When not made up, John Maclean has the most fascinating androgynous face - I really really love it when I can't actually tell what gender someone is, or it takes a lot of looking (my own personal quirk). Love it.