A woman with mental age of 9 forced to have abortion

[Gingerkittykat]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woman-abortion-court-of-protection-ruling-mentally-ill-a8970121.html?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR0LrwkWGx-4dJtABJSuHLlzyLs7IArhgM_CQVisVjx4Asf3YoCeW4aKk1Y#Echobox=1561203238

I understand that this woman will not be able to care for a baby but cannot believe forcing her to have an abortion under any circumstances is appropriate, especially since she is already 22 weeks pregnant.

I am 100% pro choice, but this woman is having her choice taken away from her.

I think it's awful because she's so far along. It's a tiny baby at this point capable of survival.
How would she even have a forced abortion? Literally held down and put to sleep?

Then would she get to bury the baby? I couldn't cope with that.

Regardless of the father, she was still raped. She cannot consent to sex therefore she was raped

Committing a crime requires mens rea. If the father also has severe learning difficulties there is unlikely to be mens rea.

The default position should be for the baby to be born

It absolutely should not be the default position.

I'm very sceptical about the mother's role in this. She is a former midwife who is opposed to abortion but failed to recognise the pregnancy until 22 weeks? She is either an extremely unobservant midwife or she has her own agenda. By that I mean did she know sooner but delay doing anything until it might be too late? In either case I would not give much (any ?) weight to what she thinks is best.

society has put this vulnerable woman in a position where she has been raped, society did not protect her from a predator. She was failed by a defunct society that allowed this to happen. And then the very same society believes it is capable of making decisions on her behalf? All judgement and "we know what's best for you" and yet no protection when she needed it. Just gross.

And of course she's not capable of raising the baby without support but then I stupidly find myself assuming we are a sane society that supports women.

But she needs to be asked if she wants to be a mummy or not

Very barbaric and it should have been her choice'

She isn't capable of making a choice.

The family have already failed to protect their child, so cannot be trusted to protect another.

It sounds like the woman herself has no idea of the realities of her current situation, let alone the future if she were to actually give birth.

Horrible situation; I think the judge was probably right, based on what we actually know - which isn't much.

But she needs to be asked if she wants to be a mummy or not

That's about as bad as the default position that she should continue with the pregnancy. Of course she is going to say she wants to be a "mummy" - what a manipulative choice of words.

As for society failing her unless you want people with learning difficulties kept permanently locked up in single sex institutions this sort of tragic case will occur. Mrs TP has already explained why.

The alternative is compulsory sterilisation which the UK courts will, very rarely and with reluctance, countenance.

I feel that the focus is too much on pregnancy and childbirth. She's already 22 weeks pregnant so no point in terminating to spare her the pregnancy. Natural childbirth could be difficult to coach but a planned c section shouldn't be traumatic. Doctors regularly prep children for major abdominal surgery so I fail to see why this would be different regarding the birth itself. The problem isn't taking the baby away from her because effectively you are already doing that by forcing termination. So to me the only reason to terminate is because they really think that this baby shouldn't be brought up in this family and shouldn't be adopted out? To me that is not excuse enough to force a termination so far in the pregnancy. I do feel that it should be born and maybe put through an open adoption or let her mum take care of it. She might have LD but ahe'll have the same binding and hormones as neurotypical women. I think a forced termination would be much more traumatic.

As someone which a daughter with LD, the more important question to me is who raped her?

Also, there's no physical reason why she can't continue, unlike an actual child. She's perfectly capable of delivering a child which can be adopted etc

I'm also the mother of a daughter with LD - severe LD, non verbal so not quite the same thing. However, this did happen to a young woman of our acquaintance (LD with extremely limited communication or understanding) and the circumstances were that she had been taken advantage of by someone who was supposed to be responsible for her welfare.

The woman's mother made the point that if the birth happened and the child was adopted, but then in later years wanted to find her birth mother - who the hell was going to explain it to the child if contact was made?
As she described it "What would I say? This is your mother?"

That would be incredibly traumatic for the adopted child.
It's a dilemma. But I think I would support the judge's decision.

The family have already failed to protect their child, so cannot be trusted to protect another

Agreed.

Out of of the options of forced birth vs forced abortion I would too lean towards forced abortion as awful as that sounds. Purely to do with getting this situation over as soon as possible for the poor woman.
I'm not saying this won't be traumatic for her but this feels like it would be the least traumatic. I can't imagine forcing her to give the baby up after birth would be any less upsetting for her.

It's a horrible situation and it shouldn't have been allowed to happen you would imagine that the person in charge of supervising her in this case her mother would be aware of the people in her daughters life. If she was aware there was a boy she was getting fond of then why didn't she push for the injection or implant

I do feel that it should be born and .....maybe let her mum take care of it

We only have scant facts but that would not be an option I'd have chosen from what we do know.

I agree with the judge, she isn't capable of making the decision

“But she needs to be asked if she wants to be a mummy or not“

Pro life bullshit.

What an unbearably traumatic and complicated case. I do, as others have mentioned, wonder at the motives of the mother. Has the pregnancy only just come to light or has the court case been going on for so long the pregnancy has now reached 22 weeks.

I cannot offer any opinion because I simply don’t know enough about the circumstances. I guess we as the public have to have faith in the system and trust that the judge has considered every conceivable angle and outcome and come to the best conclusion for the woman.

It also makes me wonder, if the young woman has time alone with males (which presumably she does), was she being given any sort of medicinal contraception to try to prevent pregnancy? Or is that another moral problem?

I mean it’s an absolutely tragic case, and I agree that any outcome will be traumatic for all involved. But I also think the court being allowed to force abortions is a slippery slope that I wouldn’t want to go down. So on balance I think this might well be the wrong decision. Not just for the facts in this case, but for the precedent that it sets.

What a terrible situation.
Very glad I was not the judge having to decide.
And very glad I am not the medic who will be carrying out the procedure.

I could not disagree more. The default position is that the rights, well-being and needs of the vulnerable adult are paramount.

Another one who echoes this. The fact that the rights, well-being and needs of similarly vulnerable adults in certain states in the US are being ridden over rough shod horrifies me.

She is a former midwife who is opposed to abortion but failed to recognise the pregnancy until 22 weeks?

Yes. That struck me as being highly unlikely too. And, if her pro-life stance means that she kept the pregnancy of her daughter under the radar and obstructed a quick medical abortion, then I think very poorly of her.

Some very disturbing attitudes on this thread

How did a woman with a mental age of 9 get pregnant in the first place? I expect she had sexual intercourse, how else?

Having a learning disability does not affect your ability to have any enjoy sex,it does of course make you vulnerable and susceptible to abuse but like most posters in this thread I have no idea if this woman had been subject to any sort of abuse or was engaged in a relationship.

Having a learning disability should not mean being infantilised.

Has the pregnancy only just come to light or has the court case been going on for so long the pregnancy has now reached 22 weeks.

These cases can be and are brought before the courts very quickly, so the former scenario seems much more likely.

Those saying she should have an abortion, does she have no legal right to refuse consent?

Not if she doesn’t have the capacity. Which is why courts have to make decisions in her best interests taking all relevant factors into account.

These things have always happened, by the way. This may be in the news but it’s certainly nothing new.

I’m another who thinks there’s no happy outcome but I’m with the court on this one. Sad but the best choice for the mother who has no hope of understanding childbirth or nursing.
If I were the judge I’d want a dna test done and the father identified.
And why has the grandmother allowed the poor girl to get to 22 weeks? She must have known her periods had stopped so not convinced her judgement is up to much either.