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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SCOTTISH GRA REFORM ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT FORWARD

467 replies

Mbwashenzi · 18/06/2019 18:59

It was going to be announced on the 25th - now moved forward to Thursday. Anyone going to join me in the public gallery at Holyrood??

twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1140953953758261248?s=19

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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failingatlife · 18/06/2019 23:51

I think I may know' wee prick Jordan' His tweets are protected. Is he a young SNP councillor in the west of Scotland? Can't be more specific as too outing!

bettybeans · 19/06/2019 00:25

Jordan is an attention-seeking fud and he's doing quite significant damage to his partner at the moment. Sadly, I also don't doubt his partner is probably fully on board with it and enjoying the opportunity to attack Joan & co by proxy. The silence during EU election period and sudden onslaught of unpleasant tweets 10 mins after polls closed was quite something. He's revelling in the attention.

Apparently Nicola Sturgeon spoke about the issue at a Reform Scotland event tonight. Gina Davidson of The Scotsman tweeted this earlier:
twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1141088525590454273?s=21

Birdsfoottrefoil · 19/06/2019 00:31

The Scottish Greens give them a majority. Could this be quid pro quo for trying to get another independence referendum through parliament?

LassOfFyvie · 19/06/2019 00:50

Holyrood requires the consent of Westminster to hold another referendum.

I assume this is being driven by The Greens- why I don't know. Regardless of one's views it's hardly top legislative priority.

For example Westminster is working on The Agricultural Bill which is A Bill To authorise new expenditure for certain agricultural and other purposes; to make provision about direct payments during an agricultural transition period following the United Kingdom’s departure from the European Union; to make provision about the acquisition and use of information connected with food supply chains; etc, etc, etc. Basically to ensure UK farming will continue to be supported.

The English Bill completed its Committee stage in November and will move to its third reading shortly. The Scottish equivalent hasn't been drafted. Drafting responsibility is with Holyrood.

OccasionalKite · 19/06/2019 00:51

Sounds like a fringe male trans support group is trying to push the issue, but it's actually no change so far?
(She says, hopefully?)

Gingerkittykat · 19/06/2019 01:22

Unfortunately can't be there as start work at 5 and wouldn't make it back in time, I wonder if it will be live streamed?

Twooter · 19/06/2019 06:31

This is the problem of voting SNP to support Joan and Joanna - what they think is opposite to what the SNP as party think.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 19/06/2019 07:28

hanks for flagging this. those attending please do keep us all doswn the road here posted

charlestonchaplin · 19/06/2019 07:38

I won’t be surprised if this goes through. We are good at debating these issues, especially on the internet, but most women are too scared, not bothered enough (mostly this) or too bogged down with life to put their head above the parapet and take decisive action. Self-ID is starting to spread among public bodies already - Leeds City Council, council leisure centres, the City of London Corporation, universities - and soon the trickle will become a flood.

I knew that the outrage over the City of London decision would quickly die down and we’d move on to outrage about some other trans issue, and that that was what they were banking on. It’s not my issue, not my issue at all, but I tried to get some decisive action going, contacting those who said they were affected. Nothing. Everyone is banking on someone else taking action. Well, MPs and MSPs are human too. They too care about their mortgages and paying for their children. So don’t be surprised if they put self before the public good. If you expect them to do all the work you’ll be sorely disappointed.

And if self-ID becomes law, just like the GRA, it WILL NOT be rolled back. We will be stuck with it for the rest of our lifetimes because quashing it (not sure that’s the right phrase) will be touted and seen as taking rights from a vulnerable group.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/06/2019 07:43

I won’t be surprised if this goes through

The recent arguments about the census give me some hope. (But not a lot)

Mbwashenzi · 19/06/2019 08:40

Lighthouse Books?

OP posts:
Mbwashenzi · 19/06/2019 08:48

(That was a comment on the "Transphobe" sign).
I'm definitely going to Holyrood and will be with a couple of friends in the public gallery. I am furious with the Greens - except Andy Wightman. But actually I'm quite hopeful about this. Women are on fire and we have SO MUCH DATA about why and how self ID is already damaging women, as well as how it works in Ireland, Malta etc. The timetabling for legislation will be REALLY tight - and it's insane for the SNP to do this just now with a Holyrood election in 2021 and Brexit/hopes of IndyRef2. Is it just about Nicola wanting good headlines for Edinburgh Pride on Saturday?

OP posts:
vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 19/06/2019 08:52

It's unbelievable.

I've I had any belief left I'd beggar it.

They are taking our rights away and that Lib Dem prick said yesterday "a few isolated incidents" meant it wasn't that big a deal that women will be put at risk. I wonder which number he has in mind of women raped by trandwomen in prisons before it's seen as being a problem?

Why do they not see it's not about trans issues - it's about predatory men pretending to be trans in order to hurt women? It's women who die, it's women who are abused, it's women who's lives are limited by discrimination more substantially than any other group! FFS.

This is going to be an unholy mess.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 19/06/2019 09:07

If what Wee Prick Jordan says is true, then this is looking like a small win?

I mean, I'm not thrilled by it, by the TRAs seem to be raging, so I guess it must be not-all-bad.

dragongirlx · 19/06/2019 09:39

All chamber business and committees are on Scottish Parliment TV

you can watch here

www.scottishparliament.tv/

EweSurname · 19/06/2019 10:11

She said that the new laws that let transgender people decide their gender without medical certification would not create rights that would allow transgender women to access intimate single-sex spaces such as public toilets, changing rooms and crisis shelters under all circumstances.

What does this mean though? On face value it seems positive but is it going to be achievable in a practical way?

Ereshkigal · 19/06/2019 10:16

Surely it's just the same flannel that they all spout about it "not affecting the EA or single sex exemptions"?

terryleather · 19/06/2019 10:39

I don't believe a single word they say on this matter - their^^ reassurances are worth fuck all while they piss down our backs and tell us it's raining.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/06/2019 10:54

What does this mean though?

If TWAW it means nothing.

Ereshkigal · 19/06/2019 11:17

I mean, I'm not thrilled by it, by the TRAs seem to be raging, so I guess it must be not-all-bad.

Why are they raging?

lazymare · 19/06/2019 11:26

Because there's a delay to look again I think?

NonnyMouse1337 · 19/06/2019 11:28

I know many people won't bother to engage with the GRA and self-id issue, but I wish there was a way to get the information out to the wider public in Scotland.
Most people are unaware of the nuances and potential safeguarding issues as they still imagine trans people to be old school transsexuals and not the new ideology of a gender identity soul that is more important and real than biological sex and the dozens of non-binary 'genders' and that a transwoman can mean anyone including cross dressers as long as you claim the label woman.

Mainstream media doesn't go into these details so people think it's usually about a few transsexuals and they don't see what the problem is.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 19/06/2019 11:48

(trying to compose something without wall to wall swearing)

IF there are any SNP people reading this, MAY I SUGGEST you do a poll on your members/people likely to vote for independence, and ask them VERY CLEARLY if they support Self ID? You're going to need to be blunt so that people understand. You're going to need to explain clearly that people with penises will now be able to access single sex spaces wherever they wish with no way to bar them/challenge them.

Because if you are really serious about your last hope of gaining independence, this could be exactly the right own goal that sinks that ship.

Women (real women, with all the womanly bits, periods, childbirth, menopause, etc etc etc) will be the ones to see and feel the effects of this. They will know that you introduced it. They will not forget. They are 50% of the population and they vote.

Katie Dolatowski was just the start. This is not going to get easier, it's not going to go away.

Popchyk · 19/06/2019 11:48

Be interesting to hear how they intend to allow anyone to self-ID with no medical intervention, and yet maintain single-sex spaces.

Because that looks to be impossible.

Also the unintended consequences of this that we are already seeing. There seem to be a lot of sexual assaults on young girls in Scotland recently. The Scottish Parliament are creating a climate of emboldening predatory men already.

Here are a couple from just this week.

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4377060/sex-attack-schoolgirl-restaurant-cubicle-livingston-knife-lube/

www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/4382264/peregrine-burgess-peebles-scottish-borders-nhs-sexual-assault/

This from last month:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-48377204

February

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/819644/mum-of-supermarket-toilet-sex-assault-victim-warns-freed-attacker-could-strike-again/

All of these involve toilets or pervs wanting access to watch young girls pee.

Should we really be giving these men automatic access to women's toilets? And how do we prevent it under self-ID? And is the Scottish Parliament complicit in signalling to these men that they are entitled to female single-sex spaces already?