SCOTTISH GRA REFORM ANNOUNCEMENT BROUGHT FORWARD

[Mbwashenzi]

It was going to be announced on the 25th - now moved forward to Thursday. Anyone going to join me in the public gallery at Holyrood??

twitter.com/wornoutmumhack/status/1140953953758261248?s=19

Oh, so we’re back to the ‘feeling in a man’s head’ then? The gas bill is just a way of illustrating the feeling but no one is actually going to look at it anyway?

Niiice.

2.15 The Act does not require an appointing person to ask a candidate to prove that they meet the definition of woman in the Act.

JFC

They can call us walking lipstick or walking gas bills, whichever they prefer. But they can do what they like.

DuMonde don’t be silly, he doesn’t need to go as far as have any feelings on the matter beyond wishing to claim the category of ‘woman’

Pencils, no the one I was thinking of was hand written and I think specific to prisons in Scotland.

Great to hear there are other documents with this approach as well :/

So, to summarise....

1. to write the law, you have to have a definition

2. they know the definition previously used was rife with sexist stereotypes and people had noticed, so had to bin it

3. they replaced it with a definition based on gas bills

4. since it's blindingly obvious that a gas bill definition is as bad as a liptstick definition, they insert a clause saying men don't need to bother with the definition

Do I have that right?

That definition of woman - who wrote that? What does "female language" actually mean?

I assume what they mean to say is something along the lines of "addressed in the manner normally associated with people of the female sex" .

Greater and greater knots being tied.

You also have to consider what the implications of this are in the context - which is basically sex discrimination in appointment to public boards. The implication therefore is that people are under represented on public boards because they have a ‘feminine’ name on their utility bill...

That definition of woman - who wrote that?

It's in a consultation paper: Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018: consultation on implementation. The link was posted by BetsyM00 earlier in the thread.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could write something as absurd as that in a government document.

So a person is a woman if living as a woman (gas bill) AND ALSO proposing to undergo or undergoing part of a process for the purpose of becoming female.”

Since that latter clause is materially impossible, how does any human being born male meet this definition of woman? I would argue that the law as written specifically excludes males from the definition of woman.

Just as law that requires anyone who wants to be legally a bird must be undergoing the process of growing wings would currently exclude all human beings from the definition of bird, and for the same reason.

Just what is the process they imagine a man undergoing to become female? That needs unpacking.

Those definitions are utterly demeaning and ridiculous.

So male, makes no material changes to self (not that that makes a difference anyway), changes pronouns on utility bills and 6 months later Bob’s your auntie?

Do they even need to change their actual name?

Given you can’t ask them , they don’t need to do anything.

So I'm female because of the name on my gas bill?

And that's it?

The whole cunty bleedy birthy breastfeedy monopausy bit is neither here nor there when defining the half of the human race that is female/woman /girl, and that 99.99999999999% of the world population know exactly what it means?

So I experience sexism when young because of the name on my gas bill that I didn't even have yet as I was too young to have a gas bill?

OK then misogynists, interesting.

2.15 The Act does not require an appointing person to ask a candidate to prove that they meet the definition of woman in the Act.

So they don’t need to do nothing to prove they are a woman

Nothing nada nothing
So the 50% women represented which is the aim could all be men 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

This here 'female name,' what would that be in Scotland?

Sandy? Pat?

Rory and Blair are both girls names across the Atlantic.

Jamie is unisex
Munro is actually a boys name in Scotland

Please fill in the consultation and tell them what misogynistic crap they are writing.

having looked at the Gender Representation consultation, I'm thinking I'll only answer question 11. I'm broadly in favour of the legislation, if it defines 'woman' correctly', but not knowledgable enough to add any value I think

do any of you more knowledgeable types think that approach would be OK?

The Gender equality on public boards document constantly muddles sex and gender - talking about ‘gender’ inclusive of men as women on the one hand, then discussing how this links with the public sector equality duty which is Equality act and therefore sex, or how they can boost membership on boards using the Equality Act again (sex). In any case it is clear that they would consider equality requirements to be met with a board that is 100% Male.

Who writes this stuff? Genuine q - civil servants?

Yes - civil servants in Scottish Government's legal department.

Civil servants who apparently flunked biology. One cannot “become female” no matter what process one undergoes. One is either female at conception, or not. I’m astonished that phrase was used.

Of course, that raises the question of just what one does become, when one undergoes or at least proposes to undergo various procedures — and which procedures accomplish what, exactly, in the steps along that path of becoming.

It’s not so much “woman” that needs further detailed definition as it is “transwoman.”

Surely a TW is not just a man who’s changed his name and who might, one day, when he gets around to it, undergo some procedure or other.

I'm glad there is a consultation because I thought the representation act was a done deal.

Scotland has suffered the worst in the UK from the transactivists' agenda. It's so inspiring to see such a strong pushback from Scottish women's rights organisations.

It seems like the world is looking to UK feminists and UK feminists are looking to Scottish feminists for a way out of this mess.

Scottish feminists are the absolute business

Personally I am not in favour of the entire Bill but I don't suppose that's what their consultation is looking for.

having looked at the Gender Representation consultation, I'm thinking I'll only answer question 11.

I think I'll do the same. That definition of 'woman' really needs to be challenged.

You don't have to answer every question on a consultation.

@LassOfFyvie - that is really dreadful then.