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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Potential Systemic Safeguarding failures in NSPCC / Childline illustrated by appointment & ending of relationship with Munroe Bergdorf Thread 2

476 replies

R0wantrees · 13/06/2019 13:05

link to previous thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3605120-Munroe-Childline-s-first-LGBT-campaigner

NSPCC statement by CEO Peter Wanless
www.nspcc.org.uk/what-we-do/news-opinion/munroe-bergdorf

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3609218-Hi-from-Safe-Schools-Alliance-UK

OP posts:
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32
Haworthia · 15/06/2019 14:18

Amongst all the apologists who think it’s fine to wear rubber fetish gear under their everyday clothes, there are still some people on Twitter who, thank fuck, get it.

twitter.com/therestofus5/status/1139523634970730497?s=21

Adult sexuality is frightening to children who have suffered abuse. The premeditation of putting on a rubber outfit under your work clothes shows that there is no ability to separate your sexuality from your work. If your sexuality is something you must explicitly live at all times

find another job. One where your mind can be on sex all day with no consequence. I repeat, abused children find adult sexuality terrifying. To them it doesn't represent freedom and expression and openness, it is what was used to hurt them. It is intimidating.

I have seen cases where kids grew up in houses were porn was on all the time. Those rubber outfits may seem like nothing to some, to those kids they were part of an environment that meant constant fear. No amount of unicorns and rainbow flags can cover the sexually aggressive

nature of BDSM imagery. This is not about you. It is not about your freedom, or your sexuality, or your need for attention, or your urges, or your sexual tastes. A children's charity is about children. Its not just about safeguarding, its about respect for those kids and what

they have gone through. They have already had someone's sexual needs forced upon them. Keep it in your pants. Or stay home. Or go and work for a charity that exists to validate people like you. No child should have adult sexuality prioritized over their needs.

👏

ChickenonaMug · 15/06/2019 16:48

Haworthia That is a good twitter post. It is indeed about respect for those kids and what they have been through

It really is not just about one man and the very inappropriate sexual things that he did whilst at work and placed online. It is much more about the NSPCC, which as the leading organisation for the protection of abused children, is seriously letting down children but especially sexually abused children.

The culture at the NSPCC means that they did not recognise that making sexually abused girls share intimate spaces, such as changing rooms in schools or tents on trips with the Guides, with males who are identifying themselves as female, can be deeply traumatising and incredibly harmful to these vulnerable girls.

The NSPCC culture means that they have not recognised how important it is for these vulnerable girls to develop their boundaries and to be able to recognise males as the sex they are and then assert their boundaries and safeguard themselves accordingly. The NSPCC should understand that sexually abused girls are at considerable risk of revictimisation. The development of their boundaries from broken, then to fragile, and then hopefully to more established and confident is incredibly important. It is also important to sexually abused children, to have the confidence that they are allowed to recognise someone for who they are and that adults, such as the teachers, around them will not tell them how they must recognise someone. The NSPCC has not encouraged a culture that will permit this.

The culture at the NSPCC means that they have not recognised the mixed messages that are being given to children. One message, given to children, is that you do not have to do anything that you feel uncomfortable with (you are allowed boundaries and they are yours to define). The second and conflicting message is that you should just accept and indeed work to eliminate feeling uncomfortable around males (if those males think or declare themselves as female) in your changing rooms, in order to be kind and inclusive (your boundaries are not yours to define, as it is more important to be kind).

The culture alsomeans that they did not recognise (prior to launching their Speak Out, Stay Safe programme) the incredibly awful wording of their definition of sexual abuse that they are teaching to children, which informs children that sexual abuse is defined by their response to it. The NSPCC's definition may well mean that not only will a child will be unable to recognise that she has been groomed by her abuser to believe that she 'wants' the abuse, but also when she finally works out that she is being abused then she will fear disclosing because clearly 'normal' children would be frightened or worried by the abuse, therefore her abuser is right. She will also not want to feel as though she has been too 'stupid' to realise what was happening, when clearly 'normal' children would be clever enough to realise that it is wrong and therefore be frightened. Children do not like to appear 'stupid'. Shame causes a child to be sexually abused for longer.

If the culture at the NSPCC had really been focused on sexually abused children over the last few years then they would have known that they need to represent the voice of the silent majority of sexually abused children and they would have made sure that their voices were represented and their needs were being met within the trans-inclusive policies that are being implemented.

The NSPCC should also have recognised that sexually abused girls may feel the need to reject female puberty and the additional harassment that they may be subject to during puberty. They should really have been asking the government to urgently investigate possible links between sexual abuse and rapid onset gender dysphoria, in order to ensure that these girls have the best outcome and chance at a future.

The culture in the NSPCC has also resulted in significant numbers of the brilliant women (and men) that are most concerned about safeguarding, being shut out of the conversation with them. Some of these women were themselves subjected to sexual abuse as children, so understand instinctively what needs doing, and when and where things going wrong. Many of these women, are making considerable sacrifices and and some are dealing with abuse being hurled at them, al because they care deeply about safeguarding all children; these women are the ones 'holding the line'. The NSPCC have responded by sometimes labelling them transphobes and they have mostly appeared unwilling to listen and understand their concerns.

The culture at the NSPCC, but also within much of the mainstream media and government as well, means that instead of these women being able to contact the NSPCC through the usual channels and expecting an appropriate response, they are having to resort to social media to relay their concerns. This ultimately meant that the deeply inappropriate behaviour of JM, which was easily found, was then eventually exposed on social media. Women could no longer trust that the safeguarding concerns would be listened to and acted on appropriately.

I think that, in a way, JM has also been let down by the culture at the NSPCC. His senior managers should have understood safeguarding, alongside the need to protect the NSPCC's reputation and they should have removed him from their staff months ago and explained to him that he was not an appropriate fit for a child protection charity. This actually would have been the best way for the NSPCC to protect him.

The culture at the NSPCC needs to change, in order to really put the needs of all vulnerable children first.

DJLippy · 15/06/2019 17:03

makemorenoisemanc.wixsite.com/mysite/mmnblog/nspcc-speak-out-get-banned

Piece from Make More Noise discussing NSPCCs problematic re-framing of CSA, histoical paedo rings and - the shenanigans at head office and the behaviour of media team asking twitter followers to report whitsleblowers

truthisarevolutionaryact · 15/06/2019 17:05

ChickenonaMug
Thank you - that's an outstanding post.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 15/06/2019 17:08

And that Make More Noise piece is also insightful and to the point. Thank you DJLippy

OrchidInTheSun · 15/06/2019 17:36

Great post Chicken

Cuntysnark · 15/06/2019 17:57

Fabulously clear Chicken. Thank you

Cuntysnark · 15/06/2019 18:01

And utterly terrifying DJ.

HumberElla · 15/06/2019 18:54

Has anyone else noticed a common theme of how all this often comes back to the art world?

There is another thread on here that highlights many of the major patrons of the art world as well as media platforms such as BBC, Ch4 and Guardian are all interlinked. Trustees and directors just move between them in circles. Paul Hamlyn Foundation comes up many times.

The National Lottery also funds hundreds of arts organisations and sets their business plan priorities and areas of focus. They also funded Mermaids.

WelshMoth · 15/06/2019 19:04

..

Haworthia · 15/06/2019 19:50

Look at these guys, cynically hoping to mop up the money from anyone who’s cancelling their NSPCC donation.

“Evidence based approach to child sexual abuse”
“Commitment to human rights and sex positivity”
“Inclusive of kinky people and sex workers”

(I can hear the chants of “sex work is work” from here)

From a quick scroll of their Twitter, it seems they are anti-censorship and keen on a somewhat liberal approach to children accessing the Internet...

Potential Systemic Safeguarding failures in NSPCC / Childline illustrated by appointment & ending of relationship with Munroe Bergdorf Thread 2
Potential Systemic Safeguarding failures in NSPCC / Childline illustrated by appointment & ending of relationship with Munroe Bergdorf Thread 2
Outanabout · 15/06/2019 20:32

For fuck sake, the description of that organisation is frightening

NeurotrashWarrior · 15/06/2019 20:55

Excellent post chicken

BertBox · 15/06/2019 21:05

The make more noise article is excellent; but please could the author correct the spellings of both MB's and JM's names? They will show up in a google search much easier then...

Outofinspiration · 15/06/2019 21:19

That Protasia Twitter page reads like they are not real - like they are testing how far into plain sight you can go with this stuff before you get shut down?

Either that or they are an out and out bunch of paedos.

ChickenonaMug · 15/06/2019 21:48

I have just read that make more noise piece. It is great. Thank you so much @DJLippy , I am so sorry about the twitter account.

Haworthia · 15/06/2019 21:58

Julie Bindel just linked to this Protasia blog post on Twitter. It is about seventeen different kinds of fucked up. How they manage to crowbar the “child protection” part of their remit into the “sex/kink positive” part of their remit, I have no idea.

prostasia.org/blog/ageplay-is-for-adults/

I’d copy and paste the worst parts, but that would be about a dozen paragraphs.

HumberElla · 15/06/2019 22:03

Excellent writing DJLippy Shocking that NSPCC were asking people to report tweets that were calling them out. Speaks volumes just in itself.

nonsenceagain · 15/06/2019 23:00

What the fuck with Prostasia? That’s terrifying.

Haworthia · 15/06/2019 23:26

There is, apparently, a pro-furry blog post that I didn’t have the stomach to read. I mean, anyone who’s read the Aimee Challenor threads knows too much about that world.

But it’s abundantly clear that Prostasia are NOT an organisation who are primarily concerned with child protection, however much they may lay claim to that.

Goosefoot · 16/06/2019 00:00

What I find really odd about that website/kink is not that some people find it a turn-on, but that there is this assumption that if it is a turn on it is ok to "play" with it. Even if you are really diligent about it being adults only, do people not consider that maybe some kinds of activity could have a bad effect on them?

It does remind me a bit of reading a copy ofYour Secret Garden I found somewhere as a teen, which I think was written in the 70"s. In some ways I suppose it was tame compared to the kinks of today, but throughout there was this idea that since it was all fantasy, it was therefor not damaging or a problem in any way. I think that a lot of people really took that to heart, and you can see now where it leads.

But don't most people realise that if you sped a lot of time thinking about something, or spending energy pretending about it, it affects you? Maybe not, I guess.

GirlDownUnder · 16/06/2019 01:34

Re Prostasia Foundation - just for info there is a thread "Child protection or dismantling Safeguarding?"

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3608751-Prostasia-Foundation-Child-protection-or-dismantling-Safeguarding

AlwaysComingHome · 16/06/2019 01:42

I think if I suspected that a child in my neighbourhood was being abused I’d hesitate before calling an agency where, for all I know, the person I am speaking to is masturbating on the other end of the line.

GirlDownUnder · 16/06/2019 01:46

Does anyone know how James Makin got caught in December?

If I found out about having a colleague like James that I shared an office with I'd be really uncomfortable. To be clear I mean kink in your time is fine, but kink at work - nope!

In the NSPCCs office environment, would I now be the one out of step, and unsupported?

2BthatUnnoticed · 16/06/2019 03:45

That prostasia site is a real worry.. under 18s “sex playing” online is all ok? Shock Red flags everywhere.

And why exactly does a child protection organisation need to be specifically inclusive of “kinky people”?

Potential Systemic Safeguarding failures in NSPCC / Childline illustrated by appointment & ending of relationship with Munroe Bergdorf Thread 2
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