Boundaries and Allies

[DancingRaven]

I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally. The image is attached for reference.

It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?

Societies problem so all women have to hold my hand and clean up the mess! Rather sexist.

On pg. 13 of this thread Debbie says when transwomen are included with women, we need to be risk assessed differently
What, why are you different from males and why should you presume to be included with females? It is as if Debbie thinks it is clothes and stereotypes which define a woman.

Notice the passive voice there?

Someone unmentioned and unnamed is the apparent architect of deciding to do some 'including'; of some males with women.
And it isn't the women, and it isn't the girls who are doing the including.
So who is the mystical decision-maker in that act, and why are women and girls apparent objects or pawns to be gathered up, ostensibly separately from men, yet then have males inserted into their midst by a master 'includer'?

Men, moving their subjects around on the chess board they believe they own, in a game they think is theirs, with pieces they believe to be passive objects.

Nailed it

I think Fionne Orlander tweeted that they used the mens bathroom, a man even said to them, err you know this is the mens? And Fionne replied, yes I am a guy, to which the man just said, oh-yr a pretty guy. (Or words to that effect) No drama, no one was hurt, no one was invalidated.....I am really disappointed in Debbies behaviour and I would hope they will come to the conclusion that if they have any respect for women, as they claim, they will stay out of womens sex segregated spaces.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF

It's in answer to glinner quote tweeting an irish women who is fed up of Aiden comberfield talking over Irish feminists. The 3 people she is talking about is glinner and 2 Irish tras comberfield and aoife Martin. All 3 of th speak over and claim to speak for Irish feminists and none of them have the faintest idea of what feminism is, especially Irish feminism

But Glinner is the leader of feminism Amalfi and he has declared Debbie a solid ally to women so this can all be put to bed.

If someone who self-Id's into single sex spaces, thinks female is a feeling, hangs out with Tras, compels children's speech, thinks we are their objects to move around as Barracker points out, is a 'solid ally' then what is a bad ally?

KatnissEverbeen

As they say round my house, aye, me bollix.

Glinner is, IMHO, a wolf in sheep's clothing who saw an opportunity to be dawned over by women and took it. He has antifeminist views on porn and prostitution and while he claims the leadership of a movement not his to lead he Gaslights women, talks down to us, ignores us, and puts men before women. You can't lead feminism by ignoring feminists.

Dh on the other hand shows what an ally they are with every tweet.

I notice my questions were ignored. Quelle surprise

Barracker

Men, moving their subjects around on the chess board they believe they own, in a game they think is theirs, with pieces they believe to be passive objects.

Fucking beautifully put!

P.S. I shared your piece on WPUK with my mom today and she was all "my mind is a pretzel!!!". And now I have to share the above with her - she is going to be a Barracker serial quoter (I'm thrilled personally).

StopThePlanet
I am overwhelmed and delighted, but confoosed.
(my piece on WPUK)?

Hi to your mum x

I dunno.
Glinner spoke out when no other Male did. He's high profile, he could have just shut up like the rest of them.
He has to say what he, personally, thinks, even if not everyone 'on the side' agrees.
I'm Irish but not part of the Irish feminist twittersphere. So there's probably a lot there that I'm missing.
But still. Glinner stuck his neck out, used his big voice and male privilege for good not evil. Hes calling it as he sees it, from a well intentioned place, that's all any of us can do, surely.

Barracker

Ok my brain is tired... looooooong day. Don't know how I miswrote FPFW as WPUK, geez I mean I freaking sent her the link this morning. Poor brain, ha!

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

I'll tell her hi for you when we speak tomorrow. Your writing along with Datun, Tinsel, Lamaha, etc. have provided many hours of invaluable conversation for her and I - she had no idea what was happening here in the US (beyond abortion legislation) until I started sharing with her things I was stumbling upon which lead me here to MN FWR 2.5yrs ago. She thought her fight was mostly over - that I am in a safe society and she could rest - but she decided to step into the sun with me.

So thank you for your thoughts along with all of the other great minds here for your perspectives and insights. I continue to learn and share with mom as well as my woke friends... AND PULL!!!!!!

7Days

He did indeed speak out when he could have kept his gob shut. But why was he ridiculing us one day and then defending us the next? Was it something we as feminists did right? Or was it a case of "a Tra has pissed me off so my enemies enemy is now my friend"? Glinner had a massive platform with which he could have raised out voices instead he

Ignores women and puts men's voices above us
Uses ideas given to him by women and passes them off as his own brainwaves
His blog is mostly written by a woman, and he passes it off as his own work
He has a habit of calling women who dare question him as tra trolls
His handling of "mattress gate" showed him to be a liar, Gaslighter and ready and willing to sell women down the river to defend men

Glinner IMHO is using the feminist movement for personal motives and is getting his rocks off seeing women fawn over him.

God poor Irish women dealing with male feminists. They are an utter waste of space at best, and at worst a complete energy drain. Men have no place in feminism.
If they really want to be allies they can set up their own groups educating men not to watch porn. A few men do this and I think it's a respectable way for a man to spend his time.

Remember that Hugo Schwyzer guy who set himself up as some sort of feminist leader? It really is only liberal feminists who would put up with that kind of thing. When his sexism could no longer be ignored, even by the libfems, I remember the radical feminist articles that took him down.

Here's the article that ended Hugo's stint as a feminist leader. He didn't help himself that he was a women's studies professor who was fucking his students, of course

www.google.com/amp/s/radicalhubarchives.wordpress.com/2011/06/05/steering-the-sluts-update/amp/

Very illuminating thread.

I’m another who has changed her mind on this. I used to think that including transsexuals made the case stronger. Not entirely sure how I got there, but I think it was about proving I’m not “transphobic”.

I don’t think it’s necessary now. I am where I am politically in defence of the rights of women and girls. I’m not transphobic, but nothing at all about my position requires me to prove that, because fundamentally it’s irrelevant. It’s exactly the same as not having to prove that I’m not “misandrist” because of my feminism by trying to take account of men.

I’ve done both in the past in the mistaken belief that they strengthen my case -“see, I’m nice!” - but I was wrong. The defence of the rights of women and girls cannot be contingent on making it non threatening to or welcoming of males. If a male takes issue with that, they are not in good faith.

I won’t argue with males about which of them is “woman” enough for women’s rights. The answer is none. That’s the thing about being inclusive - if you include everyone, then you pivot yourself right round 360 degrees back to where you started. Inclusion in here try means that you have to define the criteria for exclusion, and stick to them.

What was MattressGate?

I'm glad of any man that speaks out in support of us not enough have but I'd prefer it if those men didn't continue to speak for us

@SophoclesTheFox No other movement except feminism is expected to look after everybody else's problems first. We're supposed to be inclusive of men's problems or we're big meanies.
Men have all the power and privilege in the world. I really don't think it's up to us to include them. Besides it being a lot for women to take on, considering women have scant economic resources compared to men, the whole point of feminism is to center women and girls. But that right there is the problem isn't it. We're absolutely unequivocally not allowed to be about women. That's why I don't see trans activism as anything other than a men's rights movement

If they really want to be allies they can set up their own groups educating men not to watch porn

Or even not watch porn themselves, rather than defending their right to watch the abuse of women as a release. I haven't found many male allies - and particularly no high profile ones - who don't defend their porn use.

Mattressgate was about the Glinner fundraiser I believe? The fundraiser set up by some tweeter noone knows for Glinner, who then said he couldn't accept the money so would be giving it to women affected by the debate and some to vancouver rape relief.

Debbie was then nominated as treasurer, without anyone, least of all those that donated, being told or consulted. One prospective beneficiary (Scottow?) wanted donators to be told why Debbie would be receiving the funds to give out, Glinner said that she was being mean to Debbie and it all got messy, then it was found out the other beneficiary was a scammer who had scammed thousands out of GC people, including Debbie who had been lending money to this person. Both were informed but both gave this scammer the money anyway which apparently was going toward a mattress?!

I believe Scottow refused any monies and it all went to VRR and mattress lady

twicemummy1

We need to centre women and girls. That is where our focus needs to be, not trying to take back the women's movement from men who refuse to listen. Irish women, North and South of the border, need to organise because at the moment we're like leaves in the wind. Our movement, which was once to the forefront of feminism and women's rights has been stolen from us by professional male protesters who have taken away the core of feminism and replaced it with men's rights. Men who have a platform should use it to boost women's voices, not steal women's work and pass it off as theirs.

JustAnotherWoman mattress gate was the outcome of a fundraiser set up by someone that no gc woman can actually vouch for or say they know. It was set up for glinner who was declared "our leader" by the account which set up the fundraiser. Said funds were to be sent to VRR and into a pot for gc women to use for legal fees (an idea put forward to glinner by a woman and which glinner passed off as his own). DH was also involved for some reason unbeknownst to women. Said funds they decided to divide between a woman who is fighting a Tra in court and to a known grifter who has taken thousands from women and allies (she cried to a woman at Xmas that she had no money for the kids at Xmas just to get money, yet she has no children), has had shopping sent to her home, food baskets and more. She has no legal woes, nor is she homeless nor has she ever lost her job because she was doxxed (she was never doxxed)!

All safeguarding and transparency concerns were taken to glinner and DH who ignored them, slandered the gc women who raised concerns and Gaslighted others.

Dosgusting affair

I’m a fan of Graham. I don’t agree with everything he does, like calling libfems “handmaidens” or retweeting TRAs. Sometimes his approach can be counterproductive, IMO.

But very few public figures understand (or care?) how TWAW can impact on women, eg those in refuges or prisons who have been harmed. Graham does, and says something. Yes I would deliver the message differently- but then I don’t have 600k followers!

What feminist ally supports porn and prostitution and uses phrases like 'stupid fcking btch'. I think Glinner thinks women exist to please him and our movement is his to play with.