Boundaries and Allies

[DancingRaven]

I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally. The image is attached for reference.

It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?

Interesting R0 thanks for sharing that. Is Glinner the monkey for Debbie or is it the other way round?

In Glinner's defence, I think it's because he's so keen to not seem transphobic, that he plays the "look even some trans people agree with me" card.

I know what you mean, Tinsel, I think he's trying to persuade his woke peers to listen to Hayton and Harrison because the wokerati doesn't care about women's opinions.
I don't think it's effective though. It just makes him look like he's getting involved in some internal matter of the trans community.
I think there's an element of elitism among the Twitter GC crowd and certain journalists. If you don't approve of some of their high-profile 'allies', you're out. Some things never change...

I think some high profile men & women have been deliberately and consistantly charmed & influenced by some male TS.

(see 'Flying Monkeys' etc)

Thanks Tinsel I thought I was the only one seeing it, that I was going mad. Seems Glinner has elected himself master of the women's movement and who gets to be in it.

I think some high profile men & women have been deliberately and consistently charmed & influenced

aka Groomed .... in't that right, RO

What chance has poor Mrs Hayton got when her husband is championed as a stunning and brave feminist by our most prominent male ally?

Doesn't bare thinking about, but we must.

That was a great post R0, really enlightening

What do people mean when they say 'old school transsexual'? Debbie only became Debbie a few years ago, right? Or do you mean old school in that they actually had the chop? How do we even know what they've really done to their genitals and why does it matter?

AngryAttackKittens wrote:
I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

(its an illuminating & important thread!)

I'm only half way through this thread; I started the TES thread.

My personal views are starting to change; not least since the rohypnol thread. The stella o malley thread was also significant for me (watching the film.) I can fully see the duplicity as I did say in that thread. I couldn't outright thank DH at first because of it, though I appreciated the time and effort put into the article. I also hugely appreciated the fact it was the TES and ND was knocked off her pedestal as her views have been so extremely damaging.

The problem I personally have is that in the world of education, which I know well, most are absolutely no where near base camp, let alone beginning any ascent towards a minor peak. The TES is a hugely important and influential publication for teachers; I seem to remember having a years free subscription with my first union membership.

There's pretty much one lone voice posting on the TES forums and many of his posts were deleted as recently as last year. The article was a huge U turn for the TES. So I could see the value of the article in this context plus in my mind the weight of it being written by a trans person was more than the tantrumming of ND. This was repeatedly commented on on twitter as a reply to calls of 'bigot!' And the wokes has no where to go with because of that.

I can also see the gaslighting. It's extremely difficult. The TW threads are immensely valuable. As I said the rohypnol thread was my latest peak.

Even that post I now don't like after re reading.

The shit that's going on in schools Must Stop.

There's far more going on than people realise; organised 'official' 'LGBTQ+' shit getting in to primary schools way beyond stonewall etc. Through teacher training colleges.

I feel utterly hopeless at what I'm reading about and becoming aware of.

When people say 'old school transexual' do they mean 'true trans'? That some males can change sex? Is it like 'old school sexism' ? Why are women expected to help males with mental health problems? Why do we have to wipe everyone's arses?

By "old school transsexual", I think people mean the males with gender dysphoria who the GRC was designed for. Before the much looser concept of "transgender" based on self ID and gender identity came along.

I know there's lots of problems with that differentiation, but I think that's what people mean.

Seeing D Hayton's wife on Stella's documentary was shocking, D standing beside her grinning away oblivious to the pain their wife was in. After seeing that having previously read Tinsels trans widow thread I could never see D as an ally again. I was already very unhappy with the way they had a public voice in this being invited onto debates etc whilst women weren't

The trans widow threads were/are a revelation in understanding late-transitioning males, and I would recommend that any lurkers read through them. It's the similarity in the stories that I find extraordinary, and I'm afraid every time I see a 'brave and stunning' trans woman, who was previously married, my heart goes out to the wife and family left behind, hoping they're now OK after the years of lies and deception. LTB seems an apt response in most cases, it seems.

Exceptionally poor taste from DH. This is very uncomfortable

Debbie is attending WPUK, every woman in that room is therefore forced to be part of Debbie's fetish. I think Debbie likes being able to be so blatant about it as shown on Twitter knowing that women can't say anything because of Glinner and the like.

I don’t think Debbie is trolling. To me masturbating in a public space at work, filming it, and uploading it to a site anyone on Linked In can find... crosses a line.

Debbie has said “he/him” are fine to be used (no compelled speech) so I don’t feel I have to participate in anything.

This looks like Debbie still self-id's into women's toilets and sees women's concerns as a joke. I'm glad Debbie has permitted you to accurately describe reality by using correct sex pronouns, how kind.

I thought Debbie preferred 'she/her' and uses women's toilets? Doesn't sound like a great ally to me. Female only spaces should remain female

Debbie has said “he/him” are fine to be used (no compelled speech) so I don’t feel I have to participate in anything

Apart from Debbie's insistence that being in the women's loos in spite of our discomfort is something that Debbie can't get worked up about.

Apart from Debbie insisting that children in Debbie's school call Debbie Miss and apologise if they don't subscribe to compelled speech/make mistakes.

Apart from Debbie taking centre stage when talking about women's rights at meetings or in the press.

Apart from Debbie seemingly considering Debbie as a special exception to gender critical feminist's objections because Debbie claims Debbie is on our side.

Well, hopefully all males attending the WPUK meeting, however they identify, will have the courtesy not to use the women's toilets.

Debbie points out that there is no law to stop Debbie (who doesn't have a GRC and is self-ID) using the women's toilets. Debbie is letting women know that they will do it despite women's discomfort and we can 't stop Debbie.

Personal questions? Given DH insists that safeguarding be adhered to and openly promotes this, I would say asking for clarification of their personal behaviour that directly impacts safeguarding children and women is a perfectly reasonable question

I am so angry about the flagrant disregard for women whilst pretending to be an ally. Why are others not seeing this?