Boundaries and Allies

[DancingRaven]

I came across a post on Twitter which included what appears as a screenshot from a WhatsApp conversation with a gender critical ally. The image is attached for reference.

It is so disappointing to see this, are women's boundaries just amusing to everyone? How can we work together when our sex based rights are just 'politics'?

twitter.com/DebbieHayton/status/1105197874256797696
Here Debbie explicitly says 'yes I do' in regard to being asked if Debbie uses women's toilets.

MNHQ shouldn't delete any posts going forward that use him/he for DH.

See attached screenshot.

He has confirmed he doesn't compel female pronouns, not that I used those for him, but MNHQ standards require censorship of posters that use male pronouns for male people without their male permission. And DH has provided his permission which should satisfy MNHQ that we can use he/him freely now.

But my understanding is that he still uses intimate female spaces that young girls may be using to get undressed or change tampons, that he refuses to acknowledge or respect women's consent, that he jokes about it, that he considers his need to be in those spaces with girls to be more important than those girls' and women's needs to be away from him and from all men.
Oh, and I also understand his school policy still stands; that girls who call him by male pronouns in school should be forced to apologise. So maybe that policy needs updating. It seems like he ought to cease encouraging girls to submit to using female pronouns for him too.

My.
What a difference a pronoun makes.

I understand why people are frustrated when I find platforms and get my work published, while women find it more difficult. It's partly male privilege, partly trans privilege (other trans people find platforms they would never secure were they not trans) but I do have a reasoned case: that although gender dysphoria is caused by society, it is real and has a crushing effect on the individual; that while gender transition is a palliative solution, it does not change our sex; that when transwomen are included with women, we need to be risk assessed differently.

However, I am puzzled why people are upset that I have shared a piece by Jo Bartosch, a female writer whose work I value and appreciate.

As for my personal life, I'm quite happy to say that while most people in real life use female pronouns for me, I really don't mind if others use male pronouns. It is not an issue for me. However, I do not and will not comment on which toilets I might use. Lots of assumptions are made, but I will not confirm them or deny them. But you might want to consider the final part of the statement I made on page 4 of this thread.

Respect my NO.
Respect my daughter.
Respect women.
Respect our privacy.
Respect our consent.
Stay out of our private, intimate, female only spaces.
Whatever standard you as a male 'ally' argue applies to men, all those written pieces apparently defending women's rights to say no to all men?

Apply it to yourself.

Here is Debbie supporting Munroe Bergdorf - not allowing Munroe to work with kids despite Munroe's dismal record on lesphobia, sexism and child safeguarding was treating Munroe unfairly?

Oh, but it is alright because then they say something to appease the women and maintain self image.

Turn the gaslight off.

So you are unable to understand the hypocrisy you present to women?

You recognise that this is an issue for women, but continue to undermine those concerns because your own feelings trump that of women? Got it

This speaks volumes

Debbie doesn't have a GRC so is self-id into women's spaces and is compelling their students to use female pronouns under self-id. Then we get this steaming pile of hypocrisy or is Debbie just telling the world what they are actually up to?

Debbie this not a 'private' issue. Do you self id into women only spaces? Do you compel your students to deny reality and use female pronouns/miss? If the answer is yes to these, then you are not an ally to women.

Another tweet that doesn't sit right

I do not and will not comment on which toilets I might use

But you often do on Twitter. Laughing about using the ladies when told not to, saying you'd rather not use the gents, etc.

Please riddle me this. How can you say you fight against self Id when you are the poster boy for self id? How can you not use your "privilege" to help make space for actual feminists, ie, women? Why do you Gaslight? Why do you say one thing in public and another un private? And why did you accept the nomination of a certain KMcI to be a recipent of a fund meant for women fighting the tras, KMcI, a grifter known to you, instead of a woman who was also nominated because she's been in a refuge for the past 4 years after escaping dv with her young son? What does KMcI have on you?

This is another one that doesn't sit well and another example of Debbie speaking out of both sides of their mouth. Sexual attraction to adolescents 'rings alarm bells' but in the next sentence isn't a problem unless there is exploitation?

"in real life my aim is to avoid being defined as trans, and not to draw attention to it. Using the men's would make a massive issue of it."

You are as trans in the women's toilets as you are in the men's.
You draw as much attention in the women's as you do in the men's.
I can promise you, it is much more of an issue for you to use the women's than the men's.
For us.

I used to think you were an ally, once.
Now all I hear is you telling women that you totally support all our needs and boundaries, but that you are inexplicably the only exceptional male who will intentionally breach them. Through self-ID.

It makes it worse, that you claim to understand why women must retain the right to say no to men. You claim you understand. You are apparently enlightened. But you know that my child getting undressed for swimming would be as horrified by you in exactly the same way they would be with any man.

You say one thing and do the opposite.

It makes your disregard of us more brutal.

"my concern is the imbalance of power in the relationship"

Your concern should be the sexual abuse of a child!

Exceptionalism and narcissism. Does Debbie get an extra kick from it because women have said no? Is it even more satisfying for them.

That tweet about the imbalance of power may also be breaking the safeguarding rules of the school where dh teaches

Does anyone else find it troubling that Hayton doesn't think it is a disorder or dysfunction per se for adults to be purely sexually attracted to teenagers and get a sexual kick out of age imbalance when that is the age group Hayton teaches?

Surely Hayton would have experience with how teenagers are not ready for sexual relationships with adults and therefore all adult-teen sexual relationships are exploitation.

So as I understand it, DH sees the imbalance of power as problematic rather than being sexually attracted to an age group of 15-19 year olds?

That is what I understood to. Paraphilias tend to be co-morbid according to the DSMV. Debbie already takes one fetish into the classroom.

@AnotherLass the thing is , this is the feminist topic so centres women. I truly don't care about some blokes need to play act. Other women may find his right to do so incredibly important. This is where feminism comes in. We are not neutral. We don't balance the needs of everyone. We centre the needs of women and girls . Hence we are absolutely vilified.

Yes Twicemummy Hayton's play acting is anti-women, it is like wearing black face.

It seems to be epidemic. Women are waking up all over the place.

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but I do have a reasoned case: that although gender dysphoria is caused by society

Society makes me do it!