Can we start an anti "nail" campaign?

[2rebecca]

As a GP who frequently washes her hands, allotment owner and instrument player I really hate the trend for women to have immaculate nails that cost a fortune, scratch people and mean women can't do anything useful. Where t f did this horrible trend come from and how do we give women back the use of their wonderful hands?

I'm already there. Come join me, I have tea, coffee and some biscuits in the cupboard

Sounds good, I'll have a cup of tea with my biscuit please

BertrandRussell you can acknowledge all that AND accept that actually, women also choose for themseleves.

For example, when I redecorate my living room I may be influence by living rooms I see on TV, decorating pages on Facebook, friends living rooms, friends opinions. But ultimately I will make my own decision.

No matter how many fabulous gret interiors I see, I am still going with sapphire blue, which a few of my friends do like that much.

The fact that alot of people on here seem to think that women are only making choices because of outside influence, is what reduces women.

As I said, you can both accept there are influences. But then ultimately make the decision yourself.

But, I totally accept that the 'happy' is partly influenced by the culture I live in. Doesn't stop me wearing these things but does keep my mind open.

This basically sums it up for me. I will never understand why these types of threads always go the same way, people insisting that none of the grooming choices they make are influenced at all by societal norms, advertising and the industries that are built on selling you certain products/treatments. Of course they are, how anyone can deny this is beyond me. If people didn’t follow trends they wouldn’t exist as a concept. I highly doubt most women would chose to spend thousands of pounds over their lifetime on having time consuming/potentially painful/downright weird things done to their bodies in the name of beauty if society didn’t promote a particular beauty ideal. The beauty industry wouldn’t exist for a start. Its been said already but we don’t live in a vacuum. Most women do conform in one way or another. I certainly do. That doesn’t mean I can’t be a feminist or I'm a bad feminist because I like makeup/fashion/ shave my legs, but I do recognise that many of my choices are informed by living in a patriarchal society.

Sounds good, I'll have a cup of tea with my biscuit please

Dp will put the kettle on......I dont want to appear too hostess like as socially, that's a woman's role and I reject that.

Well that turned into a rather tedious bunfight.

I will never understand why these types of threads always go the same way, people insisting that none of the grooming choices they make are influenced at all by societal norms, advertising and the industries that are built on selling you certain products/treatments.

Good job no one said that then.

Dp will put the kettle on......I dont want to appear too hostess like as socially, that's a woman's role and I reject that

My ingrained manners (cos as a girl I've been conditioned to be polite) made me say please. I did consider this when I posted, I was going to say something like "Gizza cup of tea then knobhead" but that seemed too rude and unbecoming and I'm a lady

I suppose I don’t UnderstNd why it’s helpful not to acknowledge how we all, women and men, are manipulated and influenced by societal expectations and commercial interests and how they are part of the patriarchy.

Because you can be influenced without losing all personal responsibility. We still have control over the words that leave our mouths and our actions towards other human beings.

Think about it, if you let women off the hook because of patriarchy then you have to do the same for men too.

Would you excuse a man saying some of the things that have been said on this thread? He, individually, would have been held accountable and called out for saying it. So why not the same standards for women saying it?

Because you can be influenced without losing all personal responsibility. We still have control over the words that leave our mouths and our actions towards other human beings

Exactly, it's called being a decent person.

@YourSarcasmIsDripping

Let's suggest you intentionally misinterpreted my post but for clarity:

1. I never said it was a good thing, merely making the point that this was something that was afflicting both sexes and not a cross to bear for only women, the point I was refuting and one made multiple times up to now.

1. I used the word growth because that is exactly what I meant, seems quite self explanatory. Also, if you think the growth in the male grooming industry is unrelated to the female grooming industry you are wonderfully naive but let me reassure you that the two are intrinsically linked.

1. Again, I wasn't using the increase of male grooming to defend the industry, I can't be bothered to check my posts but I suspect I suggested that this too was an unenviable trait, however I was using it to refute the argument that this pressure wasn't being inflicted solely on women (kinda the point of the whole thread if i am not mistaken )

1. I think here at this point you started a list and sadly ran out of gas but were concerned that three (erroneous) points didn't really warrant a list so you proceeded to detail some rather unintelligible nonsense that cannot be attributed to me nor is the point of this thread.

I have no doubt your intentions are well meaning but I am struggling to see where (or why) exactly your metaphorical axe is and what it is attempting to grind but I can reassure you it should not be with me. If your misunderstanding of the points I have made is symptomatic of your understanding of the wider issues at play here then I very much understand the confusion and angst that pervades these sorts of discusions, not that I come remotely close to agreeing with any of your ill thought out responses

LimeKiwi

But noone did. Please can someone find the post that did. I have reread the last few pages and cannot find it.

Both myself and limekiwi have quoted it.

It was Bertrand's post where she said that patriarchy wasn't an excuse for saying these things but was an explanation.

But noone did. Please can someone find the post that did. I have reread the last few pages and cannot find it

One was posted a couple of pages ago saying that the patriarchy was an explanation for the nasty behaviour of women.
If someone's being a nasty fuckwit it's because they are a nasty person, you can't just say "well the patriarchy is at fault" because it reduces us women as unable to think for ourselves. Not individuals.
It's a shit attitude.
It's like a get out clause for women's bad behaviour.

It was Bertrand's post where she said that patriarchy wasn't an excuse for saying these things but was an explanation

That's the one

So no, the patriarchy is not an excuse for people being vile to each other. But it is an explanation. It’s more complicated than “women are bitchy"

And another

What is the nasty behaviour we’re talking about? I’m sure I’ve RTFT and I don’t understand what we’re referring too? Aren’t we talking about nails and beauty standards?

Tinyteatime - that doesn't mean I can't be a feminist or I'm a bad feminist because I like makeup/fashion/shave my legs

But thats exactly what they are saying that to you.

The original OP implied that you are a bad feminst women cant do anything useful
Babdoc outright said that you are not a feminist "probably a shallow non feminist women"
And others have skirted around the issue, but they are more or less implying that you are doing feminism 'wrong'

The thread didnt start about beauty standards.

Purely about how nails hold women back from meaningful jobs and hobbies.

Theres been quite a bit of nastiness. Including openly judging womens intelligences and values based on their nails

See I don’t see that sentiment on this thread. Most are saying that we should just acknowledge why we are making certain choices and that could lead to change. And if there are one or two posters saying women who conform can’t be feminists that essentially writes off most women, as most women do conform to societal expectations of beauty
in one way or another. There’s nothing wrong with being a conformist, but there is something wrong with the system. It relieves women of a lot more of their cash for a start.

I find this is a tad insulting.

The insinuation here is that women who do their nails and who don't know much about feminism are stupid and pandering to the patriarchal image of women being around for decoration purposes. Either that or the women who do know about feminism are less stupid but still pandering to that patriarchal image.

I do my nails for me.

I'm a very practical person - I've played the piano since I was 6. I clean, I garden, I sew, I lift heavy weights 4 days out of 7, I knit, I take the bins out, I lift my son up and down all day. I've been a teacher, an army cadet instructor and a cadet myself. My last job involved heaving 25kg barrels into the warehouse. I get stuck in. Always have. And I've always taken pride in my nails.

I like spending time on my hands and nails, tidying them up, trimming back the cuticles and applying my own gel nails.
I like my nails to look nice FOR ME.

What's next? Are you going to suggest we stop washing and conditioning our hair just because it makes it look pretty? How about buying nice clothes? Hmm? Bloody hell even high heels aren't allowed in your book.

Ugh. This is like a reverse Mean Girls situation. Pick on the women who make an effort to look nice for themselves because you don't do it.

Women are free to make whatever choices they want with their nails, hair, make up etc. You don't have to like it, you can hate it you are perfectly entitled to an opinion. But as a feminist you should be pleased they have the choice to do it and that they do it because they fucking want to.

Tinyteatime several posters have said they judge women and vacuous if they have acrylic nails. One poster told another the photo of her nails were awful then continued to insult her.

Women are not relieved of their money of anything else. They choose to spend their money how they wish.

Tinyteatime

You don't see any nastiness? So the OP saying that women are severely limited in their choices if they have long nails, babdoc calling women shallow, another who made racist comments, another who said that women with long nails were infecting keyboards, comments about ageing hands or claw like hands or plastic clones (and these are just off the top of my head) aren't nasty?

Anyone saying they don't see any nastiness is either fibbing or hasn't read the thread.

But as a feminist you should be pleased they have the choice to do it and that they do it because they fucking want to

Well said