City of London Consultation Results - they can't get away with this

[2010Equality]

Man Friday!

The City of London consultation on “gender identity” and single-sex facilities (including Hampstead Ponds, toilets and changing rooms at running track, facilities at the Barbican etc... ) results are out .

It's bad. The policy has been adopted on the basis of the flawed survey and misreading of the equality act.

My thread here

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1130973355849461765.html

They can't get away with this!

Someone has been doing some research into why the numbers of people swimming is declining.

[[https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7075905/Three-ten-adults-havent-swimming-10-years.html]]

Body consciousness apparently is a major factor. No one seems to be making a link between a move to unisex changing facilities and the loss of single -sex swim sessions, but perhaps they might.

Each time a leisure operator like GLL says that they don't receive complaints, they are getting it wrong. Women tend not to complain. Instead they vote with their feet. This is what happens when your priorities shift from encouraging women and ethnic minorities to take more exercise to protecting the feelz of those under the trans-umbrella. Competing rights. Women lose.

Needmoresleep GLL have had at least one complaint, mine
I'm still yet to hear back from them.
It does feel like put up and shut.

I have not used a GLL facility for a decade. Women in burkas were taking boys aged around thirteen into the women's communal changing room. No other options. The boys eyes were out on stalks. The women's response was that the English have no shame - they knew as they watched East Enders. The poor receptionist shrugged, there was nothing she could do.

I cancelled my membership. £49.50 x 12 x 10. Close on £6,000. Peanuts presumably to GLL, but it will add up if other women decide that they only go swimming if they enjoy the experience, and are not being used as pawns in the race to allow GLL to hit the right levels on Stonewall's wokeometer. .

I now pay more for membership of a gym in a hotel. Its nicer with fluffy towels and free fruit. I doubt that, as an American hotel chain, they would put up much resistance if a transgender woman insisted on using women's facilities. However I do think they would be concerned to find solutions that did not reduce the experience of women members or spa day customers.

This is not about trans per se. I was not the only woman who snuck into corners and did the towel dance on the day the hotel were hosting Miss Universe. The contestants were like a herd of gazelles. As the research suggests, people/women are often not confident about their bodies, and swimming needs a level of confidence. And if people are paying, it needs to be an enjoyable experience.

Needmoresleep I'm no longer a member either. Unfortunately, all the gyms near me allow self id, so not only am I politically homeless, I can't find anywhere to exercise either.

Women in burkas were taking boys aged around thirteen into the women's communal changing room.

Why were they doing this, and why didn't anyone stop them?

My guess, partly informed by a former policeman neighbour and anecdotes from schools, is that here was a certain level of tiptoeing around Central London's affluent and conservative Gulf community, even if behaviours were in conflict with the needs/rights of others. And that junior members of staff feel unable to take action if they are not sure of the backing of their managers.

Something similar happened to me on a women's ward where men from the Bangladeshi community did not seem willing to leave their wives on their own. Cue whole families there at 2.00am. Again it would have been a brave duty nurse who tried to impose visiting hours, without a clear signal and support from their manager.

I assume that the boys wanted to swim, and the mothers took them, but were not wanting the boys to change on their own. Trouble is that the "wet" changing room is small and communal. I did try to ask them nicely, but my concerns were dismissed. I, presumably as an infidel, did not need to be considered.

The parallel with the desire by police, schools and leisure centres to respect the feelz of transwomen might be simply that women count for nothing when the "needs" of a more powerful group come into play: be they Teddys freemasons, Gulf investors, patriarchal Muslim men or a cross-dresser with feelz.

(I now count the number of phobias I can be accused of in a single sentience.)

Ham & High article by Ramzy Alwakeel ( another man who doesn't understand Safeguarding or respect women's single sex spaces)

Editor's comment: 'Trans women are women. Of course they should have the right to use the Hampstead Heath Ladies' Pond'
(extract)
"Am I right," the caller demanded, "in thinking this policy means an eight-year-old girl could now be confronted by a person with a penis in a public shower?"

Apologies, reader, if this fails the "cornflakes test", but that clearly wasn't a concern for the person who rang me to complain about trans women having the right to use the Ladies' Pond on Hampstead Heath.

It may be a surprise to learn that I am not responsible for the City of London's interpretation of the Equality Act 2010. I am, however, happy to defend it.

First of all, call me old-fashioned but I don't think anyone should be "confronting" a child while showering, whatever genitals they have.

This policy simply means trans people will no longer be forced into humiliating or dangerous situations just because they want to go swimming on the Heath.

That means giving them the right to access changing facilities that are appropriate to their gender - something cisgender (non-trans) people take for granted and have probably never even thought about.

Just like cisgender women, trans women are regularly attacked, abused and killed by men. Allowing them a safe space is not rolling back the rights of their sisters: it is a recognition that they were wrongly excluded in the first place." (continues)

www.hamhigh.co.uk/ham-high-comment-trans-women-at-hampstead-heath-ladies-pond-1-6069883

The editor is being deliberately misleading by referring to 'trans people'
Whatever "humiliating or dangerous situations" males who identify as women have been in (if any) whilst "swimming on the Heath" in the male/mixed ponds are most likely due to other males.

(and there is a mixed pond)

Many women & girls will find it humiliating or dangerous to have males in single sex swimming and changing areas.

O & Peter Tatchell is delighted that men who identify as women can go into the women's single sex space (see screenshot)
twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1133350989069770752

embedded article by GayStar News:
(extract)
Scheme supporters said it is essential than trans women have a safe place to go. The move being the result of an online survey by the municipal organization into gender identity.

Corporation recorded more than 21,000 ‘valid’ responses. Around 59% favored making the pool trans-inclusive.

‘We are not dangerous’
One supporter, speaking to MyLondon, said: ‘I am happy to share services for women with those not born into female bodies.

‘I think their safety would be more compromised in male spaces than mine would be by having trans women in a female space with me.’

Moreover, a 22-year-old who identifies as agender said: ‘Transgender people just want to be treated like human beings.

‘We are not dangerous, contagious, or doing anything to bother anyone.

‘Not allowing us access to the resources we need such as proper bathrooms is hurtful both on an individual level and to a large group of the people you serve.’
www.gaystarnews.com/article/ladies-only-public-pool-in-london-made-fully-accessible-to-trans-women/#gs.embaux

I wonder what would happen if those with a penis who identify at women were only allowed in at certain times, say two days a week?

They rejected replies to a survey, because they believe the reason for the answers do not comply with the Equality Act?

What the actual fuck?

Janice Turner and The Times are on the case, seemingly with FOI requests

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/can-t-we-all-have-a-view-on-spaces-for-women-983089gxz?shareToken=9749587a4eb4c4507f052d968aa7d0ba

I wonder if Private Eye is looking at this.

Yes it would be a good one for rotten boroughs.

Didn't Cambridge City Council have to reverse their policy to make all single sex services based on self Id? And councillors resigned. Because it wasn't lawful to do it like that as a blanket policy? Isn't that similar to what's happening here?

Thanks Janice.

Janice

Didn't Cambridge City Council have to reverse their policy to make all single sex services based on self Id? And councillors resigned. Because it wasn't lawful to do it like that as a blanket policy? Isn't that similar to what's happening here?

Anne Sinnott exposed the fact that Cambridge City Council had misrepresented the Equality Act.

THis hapened following the actions of a former CCC member Sarah Brown (now of Stonewall & LibDem trans right activism). The changes were made almos as soon as the Equality Act was launched.

Anne Sinnott resigned
Cambridge City Council eventually acknowledged the problem with their policies, brought them inline with law and Anne Sinnott was vindicated.

Sarah Brown & one of her partners, Zoe O'Connell (a current member of CCC, also of Lib Dems & Stonewall trans activism) protested of course.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3376567-anne-sinnott-vindicated-she-was-right

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3330494-Cambridge-councillor-resigns-from-post-and-leaves-Labour-Party-over-betrayal-of-women-read-her-letter-here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3322389-labour-councillor-quits-in-row-over-facilities-for-trans-people-the-times

re Sarah Brown/Zoe O'Connell:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3399104-Times-Lib-Dem-trans-activists-hounded-abuse-victim-Natalie-Bird-Article-refers-to-Zoe-OConnell-Sarah-Brown

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3207415-Just-when-you-thought-the-LibDems-couldnt-out-crazy-Labour

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3211247-The-Lib-Dem-LGBT-twitter-feed-is-annoyed-at-Mumsnet

Excellent. Well done Janice.

Well that article was the only saving grace of today. Had a shit day, went to the pond this evening to swim it away, and there was a man there. Not really what I had in mind.

and there was a man there
I'd have asked a lifeguard to direct them to the men's ponds

The lifeguards can’t do that though, can they, when their employer’s official policy is to welcome transwomen with open arms.

In the past the lifeguards did dispatch with any men pronto!

"Had a shit day, went to the pond this evening to swim it away, and there was a man there."

The men we reasonably want to be as far away from as possible have been hovering, waiting for Edward Lord to issue their passport into women's space.

If only a hard stare - from every woman there - were enough to send him packing.

What a creep. An exemplar of the kind of man who is now taking advantage of the City of London's policy to abolish women-only spaces.

One ironic and one very interesting Tweet about Edward Lord Pondlife.

"Intersectionality is eye-opening. Today I intersected middle class, white and male and what did I find? A non-binary freemason! The most opressed of the opressed. And yet before intersectionality no-one would have given them a thought."
twitter.com/johnarmstrong5/status/1134357132181233667

"There is a reason he was sacked by the FA"
twitter.com/forwardnotback/status/1132188272602615809

Anyone have any contacts in the (I assume) Football Association as that cryptic comment seems to suggest that there is some relevance to the City of London Consultation or maybe access to women's spaces??

Anyone have any contacts in the (I assume) Football Association as that cryptic comment seems to suggest that there is some relevance to the City of London Consultation or maybe access to women's spaces??

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Lord

Under "Sports Administration"

www.theguardian.com/football/2014/sep/18/edward-lord-fa-ultimatum-refuse-resign

The other FA members claimed an irretrievable breakdown of trust.

Apologies for reviving an old thread, but does anyone know what the outcome of the FOI was on this or whether CofL was ever called out for disregarding the replies from 46% of its survey? Dr Google is not being much help.