Jezebel.com lumps GC feminists in with the alt-right

[CaptSkippy]

Yes, I know that I should not waste my time with a site like Jezebel. I saw this post a few days ago and skipped over it as total nonsense. Today I saw it trending on their front page:

jezebel.com/the-unholy-alliance-of-trans-exclusionary-radical-femin-1834120309

This must be deliberate right?

The idea that if only we dug a little deeper we might understand is ludicrous when you look at actually what is being done

No doubt considerable funds are being ploughed in to research that will show some kind of biological compulsion, because otherwise all your left with is 'a feeling'; and feelings change as do our identities over time.

I'm wondering when/if this magical biological essence is found, what the researchers might say about homosexuality and lesbianism? Is it the same gene that 'causes' both transgenderism and homosexuality? If so, is it just a matter of interpretation of your feelings, whether you choose trans or gay? What gene is it that makes young lesbians decide they are really trans within a year or two of coming out as gay?
What gene is it that makes a 55 year old heterosexual, married man and father, decide at mid-life he is really a woman after all. Is it the same gene that causes lesbians to transition to men, or is it another variant?

Is there some kind of genetic, biological switch, which turns itself on - after a life time of boxing, military pursuits or other macho activities, rendering one's previously male brain female. Does the brain go from hard to soft?

Justhadathought that summarises the situation very well.

Given that no research is permitted if it threatens whatever talking points are being promoted atm, it's clear that TRAs will attempt to block any scientific examination of the issues. Probably because they suspect it wouldn't suit their agenda.

Many FWR regulars have observed how hostile the trans lobby is towards research. Other patient groups are mad keen to have people study their condition. They hope diagnosis and treatment will be improved. But TRAs don't want research. My conclusion, arrived at over some years, is that they fear research findings wouldn't confirm their assertions about themselves.

I think MH issues have a lot to do with transgender identities. It's definitely true that a lot of the more prominent TRAs are quite disturbed people. A high proportion of them have either committed actual criminal or public order offences or been grossly antisocial. From exposing themselves to assaulting grandmothers to espousing extreme violent pornography - it's very striking. And TRAs may insist that they ARE women but it's screamingly obvious that they weren't socialized as women, nor do they have any interest in adopting such socialization. They come across as totally male, and a particularly misogynist subset of men at that.

When leafleting last autumn I found that as soon as you explained the principle of Self ID men who were husbands and fathers became instantly gender critical. They didn't want the women and girls they loved to have to share changing rooms, wards, etc with males however those males might identify. The man in the street (literally) doesn't think transwomen are women.
When I first came across this I thought it was those that had operations, but still felt they were not what they tried to turn into but more of a third gender. It did cause some interest into what all the fuss was about, so I started to read about and listen to what people were saying. I could understand were the keep single sex spaces arguments came from and along with the other points such as sport it made a lot of sense. The TRA lobby on the other hand frightened me with the if you don't have sex with a trans woman you are abusing her, and they are real women or men and can go where they like regardless of the fear or discomfort they cause because they are mega oppressed. To be honest I don't want a woman in the loos when I am at a urinal and I don't want some bloke in a dress in the womens when my daughter is in there. I went from a live and let live to a well I can not get how unreasonable one set are being and honestly frightening in their behaviour.

We can do the fallacy bingo if you like. On the other hand, we could go back to discussing the topic of the thread.

It’s funny Lang that you’ve ignored my comments about the thread subject but instead chosen to comment on the other bits (which I only entered into conversation about under what others have said) and then wrote that, ironic or what.

I think most sane people would be concerned about Self ID but whether legally classed transwoman with GD pose any more dramatic risk than say a trans man to the ordinary woman? Not convinced.

I also don’t think TRAs represent trans people any more than the heritage foundation represent woman.

A young girl I used to work in came into work terrified and shaking one day as she’d heard the people at the mosque chanting ‘allahu Akhbar’ she thought this meant they were going to do a terrorist attack as she’d heard on the news that’s what some terrorists had said before they committed an attack. I had to explain to her they were just praising their god in Arabic and it was completely innocent.

Isn’t it funny how we associate people, organisations, words with this idea of who and what they are, based on who and what we read, hear and speak too. We forget that we only ever hear the worst because the normal ordinary person going to the shops or feeding their kids doesn’t make for a good twitter hash tag.

whether legally classed transwoman with GD pose any more dramatic risk than say a trans man to the ordinary woman? Not convinced

transmen are female. The risk they pose to other women is vanishingly small. Please don't try to imply otherwise, it's not fair.

Isn’t the point that keeps getting reiterated not that they are necessarily dangerous but that woman may not like seeing someone who appears Male in their bathrooms etc due to previous trauma or just not wanting it. Would a transmen not pose more as much risk to the mental wellbeing of those people?

oh boy. yes let's have this conversation again.

actually on second thoughts, I'm out.

I think most sane people would be concerned about Self ID but whether legally classed transwoman with GD pose any more dramatic risk than say a trans man to the ordinary woman? Not convinced.

No-one needs to convince you. The Swedish study which concluded that transwomen conform to male pattern criminality, only used men who had been diagnosed with gender dysphoria.

Gender dysphoria does not mean that a man suddenly takes on the statistical risks of a woman. Why on earth would it?

I also don’t think TRAs represent trans people any more than the heritage foundation represent woman.

It's irrelevant who they represent. They are pushing for a law that will allow every single predator in the country to access women and girls whilst they are disrobing or vulnerable.

Furthermore, of the transwomen in prison, nearly half are there for sex offences. Way above average.

Transmen are generally vulnerable women. And trying to leverage an ideology that everyone profoundly disagrees with profoundly, in order to manufacture a gotcha?

If transmen are going to upset women, which they might well, they can use a third space. Or the gents if they pass.

Datun, you have the patience of a saint

Haha bernard I even had the time to say 'profoundly disagree with, profoundly' !!

I don’t think it’s patience to be able to be able to defend your point, more intelligence and belief in what you’re saying.
People who sneer and act like ‘oh I’m too good to discuss this’ appear actually, rather lost.

The Swedish study has been refuted hasn’t it? I’m sure I read on here that the author said his/her data was being completely misused by GC people? I may be thinking of a different study though. I think a lot of Male violence in general has been linked to increased testosterone levels (im sure female prisoners also have higher testosterone on average) so it’s not a huge and unreasonable leap to suggest there may well be a reduction in crime rates of TW when compared with the average man.
The percentage of transwoman in prison for sexual offences is obviously worrying, although again I believe this data is not quite as black and white as it was once said to be. There is clearly AGP present in some ‘TW’ and this certainly needs to be addressed, but anyone with half a brain cell will know that suggesting AGP and transgender are the same thing is nearly as stupid as suggesting pedophiles should get a free pass under LGBT. It is something that only those with something to gain, believe and fight for.
Third space would obviously be preferable, or toilets with enclosed cubicals and sinks. However, the way a woman may feel with a (passable) transman in the toilet, the fear she may feel from that, is not entirely dissimilar to how a TW May feel being alone in the gents.
At the end of the day, when a woman is sexually assaulted in a random attack, her attacker does not know her chromosomes or genetic makeup, he makes an assumption based on appearance.

yawn
Look! There 's an airborne flitch!

There are plenty of things on which I might disagree with religiously conservative Muslim and Orthodox Jewish women, but we all have a lot to lose if our single sex spaces disappear.

And people on the left who would be outraged by any other policy that had the effect of excluding BAME women from public life will happily give their rights away if it benefits men who identify as women who are, it seems, the most pitifully oppressed and vulnerable of all minorities.

So women across the religious and political landscape have common cause. As do, for instance, the parents of girls who are expected to accept being beaten at a sports at which they excel by boys who call themselves girls.

And there's plenty more I could add. Transgender ideology damages the interests of women and girls in a multitude of ways. Feminists, particularly lesbians, spotted the issues a lot sooner than other groups, but as time goes on and the effects of the ideology reach a wider audience the pushback is only going to grow.

One thing I've discovered is that most people assume, as Oldrockman did, that transwomen have all had what used to be called sex change surgery. Once they know the truth there's a sharp intake of breath and a rapid reassessment of the situation.

The more truth out there the better.

it’s not a huge and unreasonable leap to suggest there may well be a reduction in crime rates of TW when compared with the average man.

You can suggest what you like. But without any evidence, or even indication, it's meaningless.

The Swedish study has not been refuted. People are misreading it.

but anyone with half a brain cell will know that suggesting AGP and transgender are the same thing is nearly as stupid as...

I'm afraid you are going to have to take that up with Stonewall, in that case. The definition of being trans is anyone who says they are. There is no test. That is nothing to do with women.

The number of people who have a gender recognition certificate is about 5000, a mix of men and women. Therefore the number of men who, you seem to suggest, are genuine, is minuscule.

By all means come up with a plan to separate those from anyone else. But as it's all subjective and down to saying some words out loud, I doubt you will.

And the men who have a gender recognition certificate and gender dysphoria, are still men. With no evidence to suggest they act any different to any other man.

Indeed gender dysphoria has actually been blamed for the crimes of quite a few men who transition.

I don't know why you are still demanding that there is cohort who should be given a pass.

Men aren't women. Women are humans in their own right. They are concept and an entity all of their own. They have shared characteristics which place them in a certain category.

It's the height of entitlement to suggest they are artificially weakened, or non-functioning men.

There is no pass.

Datun, you have the patience of a saint

She really does.

Anyway ever heard of the term "dead-naming". Apparently, you can't even talk about the life someone lead before they transitioned.

I heard some people saying that Kaitlyn is not responsible for that car accident, because that was something Bruce did, like they are two separate people.

Men aren't women. Women are humans in their own right. They are concept and an entity all of their own. They have shared characteristics which place them in a certain category.

We frequently get visitors on this board who make it clear they think there should be special allowances for whichever group of TW they're advocating for; allowances that mean that if they do their homework and play nicely they will "qualify" as women.

But being a woman isn't a club or something you can pay dues to access. It's a material reality. The legal fiction of a GRC does nothing to change someone's sex.

Deadnaming is both a ludicrous and alarming concept. Ludicrous because it's obviously utter piffle, particularly to women when so many women either changed their names on marriage or know women who did. Alarming because some TW use the prohibition against deadnaming to conceal criminal records and sometimes other things that are of importance to third parties.

If the concept of deadnaming was legit, TRAs would hasten to reassure people that if a TW has a criminal record under a previous name then they shouldn't be allowed to conceal it. But they don't. Which removes any illusion of good faith. This lack of integrity gets very monotonous. And dispiriting.

Since the "it's the testosterone!" argument has predictably turned up I will recommend Cordelia Fine's book Testosterone Rex for an excellent overview of what testosterone does (and doesn't) do and the sexist assumptions that follow.

I think a lot of Male violence in general has been linked to increased testosterone levels (I'm sure female prisoners also have higher testosterone on average) so it’s not a huge and unreasonable leap to suggest there may well be a reduction in crime rates of TW when compared with the average man

...and yet this does not seem to be the case at all. Note hammer attack in Liverpool a few days ago.... ( & by someone who advises the police on 'gender and diversity issues');note highly aggressive, abusive behaviour by multiple trans women ( trans woman kicking off and smashing up shop when being politely 'misgendered', for example).......The truth is there doesn't seem to be that much difference at all in levels of aggression and violence.

but anyone with half a brain cell will know that suggesting AGP and transgender are the same thing is nearly as stupid as suggesting pedophiles should get a free pass under LGBT

...and yet that is precisely the case. Can't be too many brain cells doing the rounds, can there?

Third space would obviously be preferable, or toilets with enclosed cubicals and sinks. However, the way a woman may feel with a (passable) transman in the toilet, the fear she may feel from that, is not entirely dissimilar to how a TW May feel being alone in the gents

I think a 'passable' trans-man would probably feel more threatened using the men's loos, than a woman would feel by a 'passable' trans man using the ladies. I believe there are instinctive, and intuitive, reasons for this.

Overall, though - you're right - third spaces are the solution.

And people on the left who would be outraged by any other policy that had the effect of excluding BAME women from public life will happily give their rights away if it benefits men who identify as women who are, it seems, the most pitifully oppressed and vulnerable of all minorities.

Yes, I've noticed this too. It's dick pandering, is what it all comes down to. People with penises get prioritised.

YY exactly.

Biologically men and woman will always be XX / XY but I wouldn’t be surprised if research led to discovering real differences in brains/genetics of trans people.

I have always been very open to the idea of some biological reasoning behind it. However, this only works if you are talking about transsexuals, people with dysphoria. Once you get into the new 'progressive' bullshit of how anyone who simply says they are trans is trans and that, it falls apart. And tbh, its since this new 'progressive' thinking came about, that problems started. Once you have any man able to self declare his way into womens changing rooms, and any woman who objects instantly declared a bigot...