Jezebel.com lumps GC feminists in with the alt-right

[CaptSkippy]

Yes, I know that I should not waste my time with a site like Jezebel. I saw this post a few days ago and skipped over it as total nonsense. Today I saw it trending on their front page:

jezebel.com/the-unholy-alliance-of-trans-exclusionary-radical-femin-1834120309

This must be deliberate right?

Don't worry! My post was directed at Old Crone, with whom I am agreeing.

My conclusion, after some serious scanning, is that talk about 'Cultural Marxism' is just a joyless head fuck.

Don't worry! My post was directed at Old Crone, with whom I am agreeing

I'm not worried. But it is clear you have nothing of any particular worth to add to the conversation. I'll not waste any more time with your posts.Sorted!

the observer is so blinded by the fancy language and terminology, they assume themselves too thick to really understand it.

This is why the Emperor's New Clothes parallels are so apt - in the story people aren't pretending they can see the clothes to be nice, they're doing it because they've been told that the clothes are invisible only to people who are stupid.

This is what brought me over to the GC side. Any one even slightly familiar with logical fallacies can dismantle TRA arguments in minutes, while all they can do is flap around and try to muddy the water. I realised about 5 years ago that I didn't understand what being trans meant. I knew trans people, I'd worked with trans patients (the dysphoric medically transitioning kind) as a med student, but I didn't understand what was actually meant by "gender identity", or in what sense one should expect it to align with their biological sex. I didn't understand what it meant to "feel like a woman" in a way that was divorced completely from female biology. I understand my own (hetero)sexuality, so I have no trouble understanding someone else's (bi or homo)sexuality. But no matter how much I thought about it I couldn't pinpoint any experience or feeling of having a "matching" gender identity, so I couldn't understand what it would mean to have one that didn't match. I start looking and reading and thinking and talking, to psychologists and psychiatrists and trans people and allies. I even took some courses on it through the OU and future learn. But I still didn't get it. And finally, when I found GC feminism, I realised that nobody gets it, and that's why nobody can explain it in a coherent consistent way. To date the GC position is the only one that makes a shred of sense, but (to steal a phrase from Matt Dilahunty) I want to believe as many true things and as few false things as possible so if someone can make a compelling case for what a gender identity actual is and in what way it should match our sex, I'll happily change my mind.

Yes I've very much found that accounts from trans people never seem to provide the full story when they talk about their experiences. There's a real lack of a grand unified theory and if they knew what they were doing they'd be able to rattle it out sharpish.

I also do not experience connection to my gender in the way any trans person has described so I don't get why it would be a thing. That's an actual consistent account unlike y'know, the other kind of account you mentioned.

Yeah it’s all the blah blah stuff

It’s really simple. No one can change sex and till it’s proven scientifically then it’s all just made up stuff

And when someone can tell me what feeling like a woman it’s all just a fantasty in their heads

nothing I've ever heard or read from a POMO angle is the least bit clear/reasonable/logical/comprehensible - and seem, instead, to operate as a kind of 'sleight of hand' trick - whereby the observer is so blinded by the fancy language and terminology, they assume themselves too thick to really understand it. That is probably why no TRAs are ever able to articulate anything in a clear, easy to understand way

It's a huge con.

Yeah things that people say are complicated are usually very very simple I find. Either that or people are very very unintelligent and I am very smart, but I prefer the former explanation.

I also believe it’s a massive money making industry for some people and the grifters are just grifting as ever

So yeah datun it’s all just a big confidence trick.

Is that the true meaning of con ?

Is that the true meaning of con ?

Absolutely.

If no one can explain what gender identity is, or when they do, it differs in every aspect from the next person who has it, or the person who doesn't have one, or the person who has several, then It really is just them.

Likewise transwomen are women. It's an astonishingly nonsensical thing to say, when you can't define the most important word in the sentence. But everyone else can. Except the definition doesn't work in your sentence. And you go off alarming. But won't define it yourself.

Lots of words are used to describe this, but I keep coming back to unutterably childish nonsense. Because, it's exactly the way children talk.

If no one can explain what gender identity is, or when they do, it differs in every aspect from the next person who has it, or the person who doesn't have one, or the person who has several, then It really is just them.

Yep.

I am really liking this discussion. I am seeing some terms here I haven't seen in years.

I have also seen it argued that homophobia also has its roots in misogyny. Gay men were said to "act like women" by allowing other men to penetrate them and were therefore considered inferior and treated with the same contempt society generally holds for women.

Likewise transwomen are women. It's an astonishingly nonsensical thing to say, when you can't define the most important word in the sentence. But everyone else can. Except the definition doesn't work in your sentence. And you go off alarming. But won't define it yourself.

Precisely. As soon as you demand a definition of "women" in that sentence the whole thing collapses.

What I don't get is why we try to codify complex states that are going to need to be derived from the commonality of experience across a wide range of experiences.

There's a huge difference between my experience of life and language as an English speaker, and a foreigners experience of life and language speaking something else. I don't understand the bizarre impulse in modern science to look at something like that and try to learn.

If two people say two different things, then they're different. Trying to construct a similarity or derive shared experience from that is obviously disingenuous.

The same applies to the experience of being a woman, or of being trans. People will have different things to say about what it means, so they're obviously lying and there's nothing more to learn.

Imagine a doctor took this approach, asking patients to rate their pain despite people having different pain thresholds, and then saying "okay this condition is more painful than this other condition" even though the patients all say completely different things to one another. It's just irrational. We can never know these things.

We can never know these things.

Of course we can. Being a woman isn't subjective.

I mean, if these are the people you want to hang out with, fine. But have you tried engaging your brain and actually thinking about the arguments instead? It's hard work, but ultimately rewarding

You talk about ‘engaging your mind’ yet have used my comment about GC feminists being happy to align with the right and ignored it, instead choosing to mention various (awful) TRAs... there’s not much critical thinking or brain function going on there.

The minute GC people chose to put their issues with a minority of men over the issues of a majority of woman, the movement did lose a lot of credibility imo. Listing people who are TRAs and bad just makes you appear childlike ‘they’re bad too!’

As I mentioned, it’s not the fact that Posie went to America and spoke to these people, it was the fact that most GC people openly defended and made excuses for it.

Feminism is about the liberation of woman, the conservative right aim to do the opposite. How can a feminist movement align with such anti-female organisations and be ok with that?

Of course we can. Being a woman isn't subjective.

This. And all the fluffy pomo nonsense in the world doesn't change that.

Woman: an adult human female
Female: of or denoting the sex that can produce ova

Being a woman isn't subjective.

Exactly. XX chromsomes, clitoris, human female.

The idea that woman / female could be reduced to somebody's feeling is not just misogynist, it's homophobic because it negates the concept of same-sex attraction.

What intrigues me a lot Is the black and white thinking of ‘XX female, XY male’ obviously biologically this is 100% correct. Men cannot ‘become’ a biological woman and visa versa.
However, I’ve always believed we do not know or access enough of our brains to truly understand underlying differences.
Our chromosomes make up who we are and sex is decided in utero but as a species we are not perfect and differences and mistakes occur at birth all the time.. woman are born without vaginas(biological), babies are born with 6 fingers or organs on the outside. There are many disorders that cannot be explained or seen, how can you be so sure that transgender people are not suffering from a hidden malfunction at birth of being born with the mismatched reproductive organs and chromosomes?
Going back not that long ago, homosexuality would’ve been seen as a ‘wrong choice’ made by someone, I think people found it hard to understand the whole ‘Adam and steve’ concept when they themselves did not feel it and all their lives had been told man+ woman is the way to go, because biologically were supposed to be programmed to reproduce and homosexuality did not fit in with what was ‘supposed’ to happen.
I think there was a study recently that said trans brains align more closely to that of their desired sex.
Everything is open to exploitation obviously, and self-ID does blow that wide open, but I find it interesting that people are so sure of themselves that man=man and there’s nothing else too it?
I’m interested in thoughts.

Being a woman isn't subjective.

However much some men would like it to be.

Being a woman isn't subjective.

However much some men would like it to be.

Physically being a woman is a matter of fact and biology, what is subjective is our personal experiences and feelings towards our sex and the way we adjust our lives accordingly.
Woman don’t all experience ‘being a woman’ in the same way. To suggest we do is misogynistic as well as ridiculous.

No one suggested they did. Straw man.

Say what now ?