Is a Transman a mother or father?

[Mamello]

What do people make of this in today's Times? To me this person did not 'Father' their child - they gave birth to their baby from their ova and so are the mother.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mother-of-all-legal-rows-for-trans-man-and-his-baby-5rzpw9mr7

Sorry - don't have a share token.

It's their certificate, not their parents'

Quite.

Lots of people have a degree these days. In reality it means very little..

So true, as we can see on this very thread.

As an aside - is there anything more naff than someone mentioning their A levels or whatever?

A birth cert is not recording fact. It's the mothers opinion

It's quite fascinating isn't it?

It's quite fascinating isn't it?

Indeed. My age and birthday maybe completely different. I'll have to ask my dad's opinion. Maybe he can decide it's actually today. Yay.

A question about registering births.I thought that men could register births on their own if they were married to the mother.So this transman must have gone to the registrar as a mother to register the birth.?

Yes they can - my DH went to register ours because there is a deadline and DC and I were still in hospital (can’t remember - 6 or 8 weeks). Only because we are married.

Yes good point Hotter. As a man who is not married to the child's mother (head explodes), TT is not legally allowed to register his baby's birth if he is in fact the father as he alleges.

Yes good point Hotter. As a man who is not married to the child's mother (head explodes), TT is not legally allowed to register his baby's birth if he is in fact the father as he alleges.

All this money, time and resources being invested in this act of shit. How many years of time and millions of pounds are being wasted?

Like the prisoner in the American jail who has been told they must act 'more like a woman' in order to preserve their space in the female prison. They are contesting, in the most supreme act of subversion ever, that there is no way to act like a woman.

How much money is this costing? The cosmos will implode at how the human race is disappearing up its own black hole of inconsequential crap.

@justhadathought I'm a doctor. Thankyou for your opinion on my qualifications

If a child does not 'have a mother' but has two fathers who are not married, who legally can register the birth????

And who is their legal guardian by law?

It theorectically would be the State, who can put what they see fit because there are no other legal guardians to have an input and have an opinion. Could they therefore state there was no mother and no legal father, without a legal challenge and DNA test??? And then this would be based on scientific evidence anyway.

The birth mother. The fathers would have to adopt the child.

The implications of this narcissist getting the ruling through has massive implications for women. Men could register their child's birth and not put the mother down, erasing her from her child's life.

This is of course what the commercial surrogacy advocates want to do. To be able to pretend the surrogate never existed so that the child's birth certificate perpetuates the lie they are telling themselves.

From I’m working class and live in a rough area full of single parents to I’ve got A in all sciences to I’ve got a science degree to I’m a doctor* in three pages. Brilliant.

(If you want to pass as a doctor online, maybe stop referring to your GSCE or A level results. Just a little hint for you there.)

..I'm a doctor..

And we love doctors on here don't we?

If you mention birth certs again I will instruct my solicitors - Harrop, Webberley and McKinnon.

..I'm a doctor..

And we love doctors on here don't we?

If you mention birth certs again I will instruct my solicitors - Harrop, Webberley and McKinnon.

And the judge coming up with the alternative of gestational carrier

Then the father would have to renamed as the "Sperm Provider".

@justhadathought I'm a doctor.

God help us all, then. A doctor who is completely unaware of how births are registered, and seems to have no clue that children ask questions about their parentage. Which they do. All the time.

The birth certificate belongs to the child, it is not some tool of validation for the child's parent.

Well presumably there is a way for an unmarried father to register the birth. It may be the case that the mother is dead or in a coma for example. Reading the .gov.uk link I posted, it would appear that the medical staff who were present at the birth would need to assist.

But at present it is not possible for the name of the mother not to be on the birth certificate.

I am not clear whether TT wants to be recorded as a ‘father/parent 2’ (about which the one thing you can say categorically is that they did not give birth to the child) or that TT wishes TT’s sex to be reported as male, within the category ‘mother’.

Option 1 I would have concerns about. Option 2 seems possible, but probably has other ramifications that I haven’t thought of.

United Nations

Convention on the Rights of the Child

"Article 7

1. The child shall be registered immediately after birth and shall have the right from birth to a name, the right to acquire a nationality and. as far as possible, the right to know and be cared for by his or her parents."

A doctor who is completely unaware of how births are registered, and seems to have no clue that children ask questions about their parentage. Which they do. All the time.

Absolutely. I can't remember how old my DC were when they first asked me if they grew in my tummy. It was very young, though. And the questions kept coming.

Children are curious about how everyone in the family links up. Mine were fascinated - and not a little weirded out - by the idea that I'd grown in Grandma's tummy.

How is TT going to respond to the question about who grew in whose tummy? The case is so self indulgent in its assumptions (that a mother's gender identity is more important than the truth about the child's origins) that I have no confidence in the truthfulness of that baby's upbringing.

Hearwego - I'm sure there is a way if the mother is dead or comatose but in all other circumstances, the mother has to register the birth if she is not married to the child's father.

The mother's sex is not recorded on a child's birth certificate. It is assumed that a mother is female because only women can give birth. AFAIK, TT wants the mother box to be empty and to have their name in the father box, making their child's birth certificate a lie.

From I’m working class and live in a rough area full of single parents to I’ve got A in all sciences to I’ve got a science degree to I’m a doctor in three pages. Brilliant.*

(If you want to pass as a doctor online, maybe stop referring to your GSCE or A level results. Just a little hint for you there.)

Not to mention the apparently self flagellating criticism of women here for being, what was it (I can't be bothered to check) articulate? Intelligent? And therefore middle-class???

Doctors, those well-known inarticulate, unintelligent lot.

Orchid what might be possible then is for the judge to say that TT has to be recorded as the mother, but that the current birth certificate is 'not fit for purpose'. A little like what the Supreme Court did on Civil Partnerships. I don't know, I am just speculating.

It seems odd to allow the person who gave birth to the child to be recorded as 'father/parent 2'.

Also a professional male perhaps?

limpbizkits I'll buy you a packet of fish fingers if you're a Doctor of Gender Studies, with a PhD in Bantz and Feels.

Datun I was thinking the same. How much is this type of bullshit costing. What a waste.