Is a Transman a mother or father?

[Mamello]

What do people make of this in today's Times? To me this person did not 'Father' their child - they gave birth to their baby from their ova and so are the mother.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mother-of-all-legal-rows-for-trans-man-and-his-baby-5rzpw9mr7

Sorry - don't have a share token.

Was that supposed to be a threat or an admission of incompetency?

@sackfire if its not gospel who's penis 50%of your DNA came out of (married to mother or not) does that not equally render it burnable?

Un Convention on the Rights of the Child is clear: A child's parents are the biological mother and father. Anyone else is a 'carer'

Eh? So parents who have legally adopted their child are just carers?

Limp

You said:

A mother can record any male she likes as a father

Which is categorically untrue. No matter how many As you got, this is still untrue. Can Deathgrip* name Prince Harry as the father of her future children?

if its not gospel who's penis 50%of your DNA came out of (married to mother or not) does that not equally render it burnable?

The father doesn't give birth, the mother does. Hope that helps.

That's two limpbizkits in one day for me.
One was standing up to the crazied SJW madness at evergreen college, with the use of limp bizkit quotes to write over attacks on the biology professor.

www.theblaze.com/news/2017/07/17/evergreen-state-college-students-and-staff-speak-out-against-sjw-campus-dominance

And the other just wanted a fight about biology on mumsnet.

This is a parents rights case. It feels a bit like those cases where parents and doctors have disagreed in court about the child’s best interests. You often find in the background of the disagreement a religious or political feeling on the part of the parents which they are pursuing in respect of their child. Also there is often some kind of trusted highly influential adviser to the parents telling them what they should do, who doesn’t have the knowledge of that individual child or who doesn’t turn out to know much about children or medicine at all.

I hope the parent in this case has good, objective, trustworthy support for themselves and their child.

There are older threads on FWR about this legal case:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3370188-transman-gives-birth-wants-to-be-father-parent

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3271483-Baby-could-become-first-person-born-in-England-or-Wales-without-a-legal-mother

I do think the problem here is the GRC.
It is a legal document saying that gender is a real thing that overrides biological sex, but in certain circumstances only. It doesn’t seem clear about what these circumstances are, making friction with other areas of the law which are clearly written for biological sex. But in reality everyone knows that biological sex can’t be overridden. Which is why a sperm donor, not an egg donor was needed in this particular case. Because no human being can actually change sex.

It is legitimate that other people than the individuals concerned have an interest in what goes on birth certificates.

I guess that’s why people who get a GRC aren't allowed to change their sex on their original birth certificate. The GRC gives them a new alternative BC with new legal sex written on it, but the old one still exists in the archives.

And that must also be why we don’t let parents just put whatever sex they wish for the baby, on the baby’s birth certificate.

TT is the unfortunate child’s mother.

The birth certificate is a recording of fact, not ideological preference, and is enshrined in law to guarantee the child’s right to know their biological lineage.

What TT would like to do to diminish their child’s rights is neither here nor there.

TT’s anti-science and anti-child activism can only fail in the face of public revulsion at this retrograde challenge to current laws.

If the judge rules that this person can be recorded as the father, I wonder if that will have implications for their rights to maternity leave and pay.

What an utterly selfish person this is.The birth certificate does not belong to the parent, the birth certificate belongs to the child. It is an accurate description of the FACTS at the birth.

The child will spend a lifetime of explaining why there is only a father listed - or maybe 2 fathers listed (or more, who knows where this is going?).

No mum listed here - if were you abandoned then?
No I have a dad
So you do have a mum then - your dad will know who your mother is
That’s dad
What is?
My biological mother
Who is?
My dad
Your dad is your bio mum?
Yes
Jesus Christ...
Quite possibly🤔

I know, Sakrifice, but here, whether we like it or not, one of those facts is that the person who gestated the child and gave birth was, at the time of impregnation and through to and including birth, legally male.

Sorry, Sunkisses, not Sakrifice.

I know, Sakrifice, but here, whether we like it or not, one of those facts is that the person who gestated the child and gave birth was, at the time of impregnation and through to and including birth, legally male.

And this is why the GRA should be repealed.

On paper my sister is American. Except she isn’t, she is a Geordie. Ditto my uncle and cousin.

The trouble the judge has though is that he (it is a male judge in this case) can’t repeal the GRA. It is a law he has to work out how to make compatible with other laws.

Perhaps the child won't raise these questions. Perhaps they'll be loved and happy unlike countless other children with a 'dad' recorded on their birth cert

Of course the child will ask.

Where’s my mummy?
You don’t have a mummy.
Why don’t I have a mummy?
Because you have a daddy.
Hmmmmmm. Where did I come from?
You were grown in daddy’s tummy
How was that then? I thought only mummies had babies
No. Everyone is wrong.

Why on why does this story affect you so much? (like every other trans talking point) easy target? New identities for child murderers? That bother you?

Perhaps the child won't raise these questions. Perhaps they'll be loved and happy unlike countless other children with a 'dad' recorded on their birth cert

Are you saying that 'happy and loved' children don't have the right to know whose vagina they came out of?

Do you feel the need to look at your mums vagina and imagine yourself emerging from it?

Limp

You seem perfectly capable of being concerned about new identities for murderers and engaging with the topic of this thread, so I don’t see why you’re struggling to see how others can hold two thoughts in their head at the same time also.

I get we all get that you have an issue with dads.

Ok try to skip over that for one minute and think about the rights of the child. It’s not a case of a getting a dad for the child at all costs. This person could be a complete arse for all we know. Could be the worst dad on the planet to this child. Or maybe a really good mum/dad.

I suggest we ignore the children on the thread.