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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Is a Transman a mother or father?

252 replies

Mamello · 27/04/2019 14:32

What do people make of this in today's Times? To me this person did not 'Father' their child - they gave birth to their baby from their ova and so are the mother.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mother-of-all-legal-rows-for-trans-man-and-his-baby-5rzpw9mr7

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OP posts:
ALittleBitofVitriol · 28/04/2019 08:17

limpbizkit

@vitriol I also love the way you have skirted correcting me in anything I've said?

You are free to think whatever you like, love.

Hearwegoagain · 28/04/2019 08:18

Mothers can’t record anyone as the father. If she is married, the mother or her husband can record the birth and both names go on the birth certificate. If unmarried, the man has to give his consent to be recorded as the father.

NotBadConsidering · 28/04/2019 08:18

Let him be recorded as a father. At least he's got one. Live in my area. Most kids haven't

Yes, because nothing solves the problem of fathers not taking responsibility for their children faster than changing the definition of mother to father. That’s the best way - no need to make those men more responsible, just assign them out of the picture. Hmm

limpbizkit · 28/04/2019 08:19

@scrim of you don't believe me look it up. You can say anyone you like is the childs father. Do you really believe they check accuracy and collect sperm samples when punching those letters under 'father' when women register??? You're clearly middle class. Get in my neck of the woods. Watch some Jeremy Kyle! Bloody hell you're naive. *awaits your middle class apparently elitist smug come back

NotBadConsidering · 28/04/2019 08:20

I shall record Prince Harry as the father of any future children

No no, make it Prince William then post as such on that 2nd thread in AIBU about his alleged affair. Cat——>pigeons.

Hearwegoagain · 28/04/2019 08:22

www.gov.uk/register-birth/who-can-register-a-birth

This shows who can register a birth, and what criteria are required for the father/parent two.

limpbizkit · 28/04/2019 08:22

If you don't believe me ask your local registry office

Hearwegoagain · 28/04/2019 08:24

It clearly says that for a man, it needs to be either the husband of the mother, or someone who has completed a statutory declaration of parentage.

JellySlice · 28/04/2019 08:25

just want to live quietly as a man/woman

'Living quietly' generally means that you don't do anything that excites attention, that you don't do anything that harms other people.

Demanding to change reality is not 'living quietly'.

Demanding that others affirm your delusions is not 'living quietly'.

Demanding that your child's first legal document lies about them is not 'living quietly'.

Deathgrip · 28/04/2019 08:25

You can say anyone you like is the childs father. Do you really believe they check accuracy and collect sperm samples when punching those letters under 'father' when women register??? You're clearly middle class. Get in my neck of the woods. Watch some Jeremy Kyle! Bloody hell you're naive. awaits your middle class apparently elitist smug come back*

You are an idiot.

If you are married, a woman can attend alone and register the birth with the husband as the father.

If unmarried, the man must attend in order to be put on the birth certificate.

A woman cannot just name any man she wants. If she says a man is the father and he will not attend the registration and confirm this, the only way to get him on the BC is a DNA test.

Oh, and I’m from a particularly rough area of Manchester thanks, but go ahead and assume as much as you like.

Natsku · 28/04/2019 08:25

I think you're the one that needs to go ask the local registry office limpbizkit if the parents aren't married then the alleged father needs to be there to agree to their name being put down so the mother can't just put down anyone, only someone who will agree to it and be there

limpbizkit · 28/04/2019 08:29

I'm an idiot. One with a degree in a science hmmm. OK you really believe they check sperm samples when registering? OK so take your example. A man married to the mother isn't the biological father. So how's that different? Was it 'idiot' you labelled me?

limpbizkit · 28/04/2019 08:30

@natsku read the above

limpbizkit · 28/04/2019 08:32

@jellyslice I doubt they referred themselves to the media

NotBadConsidering · 28/04/2019 08:33

When you say degree in science, did part of that degree involve clicking on internet links, reading the information provided, and comprehending it? Or was it something woolly like gender studies?

Deathgrip · 28/04/2019 08:37

You’re not getting it are you?

A woman cannot name anyone on the BC. She can name her husband, because that’s part of what constitutes the legal terms of marriage in this country.

I am not married to Prince Harry, hence I cannot name him on a birth certificate without his presence and consent, or a DNA test and a court appearance.

I have a science degree too - I met plenty of idiots, and turns out that a science degree doesn’t give you any knowledge of the U.K. law around registering births. Funny that.

moonrises · 28/04/2019 08:38

Did you just presume my ge.... class?

Stop conflating issues. The fact that some people lie/ deceive about the father on a child's birth certificate is not a reason for this proposal to be granted. This potentially has massive ramifications, stop trying with the #nodebate. Massive changes to law, statute and protocol can not be allowed to happen under the radar who ever is involved.

This is an important issue and as worthy of a debate as any other issue that doesn't directly effect me.

Hearwegoagain · 28/04/2019 08:38

It is certainly true men do not have to be the biological parent to be recorded as the father. It is certainly not true that the mother can put anyone she wants.

However, this thread is about whether someone who is the biological mother can be recorded as something else.

I think it should be clear, for the sake of the child, who their mother is.

It may be possible to make this clear and still to record this person as legally male.

However, as others have pointed out, it does rather show that the ‘living as a man/woman’ bits of the GRA are, well, vague in their legal meaning.

JellySlice · 28/04/2019 08:38

No, they just kicked their toys out of their pram and yelled "but I want it!" went to court over it, which is a public event.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 28/04/2019 08:39

You can have a Degree in a non ‘science’ subject. And I know plenty of idiots with degrees.

limpbizkit · 28/04/2019 08:41

@hearwegoagain a sensible post. Thankyou

GirlDownUnder · 28/04/2019 08:41

Limp

What Is The Difference Between A Legal Father And A Biological Father?
The legal father is the man the law recognises as the father of the child. When a married couple has a child, the law automatically recognises the husband as the child`s legal father; therefore, paternity does not need to be determined.

This assuming the old definition for man / father

limpbizkit · 28/04/2019 08:43

@lordProf let's hope I don't do your clerking in hospital then. Need I say more

GirlDownUnder · 28/04/2019 08:44

I think it should be clear, for the sake of the child, who their mother is.

Doesn't the BC also belong to the child not the parent?

sackrifice · 28/04/2019 08:44

If the mother isn't recorded on the birth certificate, when the certificate is the record of the actual birth [you know, whose vagina you came out of] then what is the point of a birth certificate?