Another day, another friend insisting that THIS video will change minds and hearts

[emerencealwayshopeful]

I watched it. I was doing washing up as well, so it wasn't focussed attention, but I don't recommend others force themselves through it. The production values are nice though, if you appreciate such things.

I'm just feeling lost again, turning on social media after a couple of days away and finding this shared a few times over with words explaining that nobody could be 'swayed by so-called gender-critical arguments' after seeing this all the way though.

How do intelligent women not understand that none of this has anything to do with denying the existence of people who are clearly here and all of it has to do with the fact that this ideology is a threat to women and girls?

This, the Ogre's piece denouncing JY (And the other articles about that vile human) and I need to avoid social media - except that I also have a social life that is barely real so need to go there sometimes to prove to myself I still exist.

There were some reasonable points

Would you be able to expand? I'd like to know what is worthwhile without needing to watch the whole thing.

There were some reasonable points

Were there? I watched the first 12 minutes or so of this person failing to respond to any of the points, then gave up as I couldn't stand the bizarre delivery any longer.

I've seen one or two if their videos,but they've never addressed or come close to explaining the two things that are key to me:

How it is possible for a man to change sex, and
Why should women and girls lose their sex segregated spaces?

The “King” video addresses all Natalie’s points one by one, clearly and calmly. He also explains why he uses “she” and talked about the kickback he got for doing it.

Do they explain how it's possible to change sex and why woman and girls shouldn't have sex segregated spaces?

The “King” video addresses all Natalie’s points one by one, clearly and calmly. He also explains why he uses “she” and talked about the kickback he got for doing it.

Nobody is disputing their interpretation and explanation of their actions and feelings; what people are disputing is whether this, alone, makes them a woman. It doesn't! And whether people people must see one as one sees oneself. People can't be forced into confirming one's feelings about oneself. If your identity requires continual affirmation from strangers then it is very shaky indeed.

Can anyone who watched it and found it interesting/insightful/intelligent/thought-provoking/etc let us know on the thread any specific points? Just vague summary/paraphrasing of any of it would be good.

I don't really want to watch the King rebuttal because I assume it plays through the whole thing and takes it apart line by line. That will take even longer than just watching the original and drawing my own conclusions and i'll still have to watch the original within it anyway.

Any takers? Anything you thought was pertinent? People on the thread are talking about hyper femininity explained being good. Any chance you could outline the bones of the argument on the thread?

“Any chance you could outline the bones of the argument on the thread?”

Yeah, well, I could. But then I’d be saying that my time is less important than yours......

then I’d be saying that my time is less important than yours......

No you wouldn't, you've already watched it. You didn't have a massive aversion to the style of it, in fact you've spoken quite highly of it. It would hardly be any skin off your nose to give an summary of one of the worthwhile points you think it made from memory.

support everything you say...…..

Hang on, this person is calling feminists "evil bigots" and "terfs" but we're supposed to take them seriously are we? How does that work exactly? Is it because they're not calling for us to die in a fire that this sort of thing passes for civility now? The bar is so very very low.

"Excuse my beauty, terf". Hmmmm.

I think it’s pretty grim. But it is much more measured and thoughtful than many others. The style is horrible. Abd the “straw feminist “
Is very annoying. And she stops, as usual, before the difficult questions. But she is not actively offensive or agressive, which makes a nice change. And she does actually make an attempt to answer a question or two.

When you are talking about "she" are you referring to the narrator or the straw feminist?

Yes. I give people their names and pronouns and I don’t dead name because I think it’s the polite thing to do. And it also means i’m not giving them a handful of ammunition they can use to distract from the bigger issues.

Ah. Then I think you must have some rhino hide when you say it's "not actively offensive or agressive" - and I must have become delicate through lack of exposure - I couldn't stand how aggressive and offensive it was.

But she is not actively offensive or agressive, which makes a nice change

Apart from calling women "terf" and "evil bigot" you mean? Sounds like the same old same old to me, in a fancy hat this time.

I suppose when you've got used to this:

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/05/01/trans-activism-become-centered-justifying-violence-women-time-allies-speak/

Natalie seems positively friendly.

And she does actually make an attempt to answer a question or two.

Really? I watched the "answers" to the first three, and there was no attempt to really answer them. Just waffle which skirted round the issues but avoided giving any real answers.

Did you see this piece that someone posted earlier, WeRiseUp?
medium.com/@aytchellis/response-to-contrapoints-263a2796bb9b

Life is short. I don't particularly like watching videos as a format anyway - too bloody time-consuming and time based - you can't scan read etc.

Me too. I really hate watching videos as they just consume too much time and I'm not interested in who is saying something, only n what is being said. Having it spoken slows everything down. Written as an article, I can scan, skip bits, go back and forth to what is interesting.
It always seems a little "this is all about me", ie self-promotion. If the speaker is as obnoxious as this one, it's an immediate no. Even if the content is something I'm interested in or agree with, if the speaker is too slow, takes too long to get to the point, waffles around, draws attention to themself, I'm gone in a flash. Life's really too short. Write it, and I'll read it.

Is Natalie's femininity making people imagine that they're nice?

Thanks OldCrone.

From that break down it seems this person is saying absolutely nothing new that I haven't heard and isnt actually putting a different slant on anything either.

It seems to be saying:

Be kind to males, budge up for males, don't be concerned about males, include males, males feel sad if women don't do all this, women who don't do all this are transphobic bigots who are motivated by disgust with 'trans' people and wish they didn't 'exist'.

Did I miss anything?

Exactly lamaha you think "just cut to the f-ing chase!".

And oh the comments on that Holly Lawford Smith piece! I'm with Maisa Carvalho.

Me too Erish!

God. I can't believe so many people take this little twerp seriously. I am getting old.

Yes. I give people their names and pronouns and I don’t dead name because I think it’s the polite thing to do. And it also means i’m not giving them a handful of ammunition they can use to distract from the bigger issues.

This sort of 'politeness' and respect is usually earned with familiarity and some degree of respect and trust. What would have earned it is maybe not calling anyone who is critical as a TERF - in the first instance. Relationships are two way things.; there has to be reciprocity. And don't call women 'cis' when you have been told they reject it.

This 'dead naming' business is just another example of narcissism.
I've changed my name on a couple of occasions in my life, but don't throw a wobbler when someone from my past uses the old name. I also don't demand they call be by any other name than the one they think of me as. I'm big and secure enough to handle this, and I must also respect their side of the relationship.