Are there identifiable causes for being trans?

[T1meForDebate]

Fionne is sharing some heartbreaking testimonies on Twitter from transwomen who were manipulated by their mothers - I do wonder if sometimes women project 'I wish you had been a girl' so strongly that the impressionable child starts to try to please?

Then there's the three year old boy who said he was a girl - only when given time to talk did it come out that his parents had a younger daughter with many special needs including extra time and attention. Little boy can only conclude they love girls more - so he insists he's a girl.

Debbie, the transman who transitioned at 44 (when menopause hit, maybe?) - and 15 years later bitterly regrets it because she's come to terms with the fact that it was triggered by her father's sexual abuse

The whole feeling lowest of the low if you're a lesbian or gay teen - but suddenly fashionably fascinating if you say you're trans

Irresponsible magazine calling a school the coolest in the country because so many children say they're trans - who wouldn't want to join the latest craze and get called cool in print?

Autistic children who find dealing with the world so difficult, suddenly also having to cope with new bits that look, feel, smell and behave differently, including hurting, and attracting wierd unwanted attention, reactions and touching

Kids whose interests, behaviour and dress don't fit the prescribed pink and blue approval lists being ushered through the 'you're clearly trans' door

Adults (including parents) who are so committed to wanting children kept in a pre adolescent form for longer than is natural that they develop, prescribe, promote and lobby for puberty blockers (what's that about?)

Charming, articulate and cute transmen publishing chirpy polished how-to videos on Instagram flourishing binders, mastectomy and phalloplasty scars to community cooing response - what a lovely welcoming sense of belonging endorphins that must trigger

final para removed by MN as it broke guidelines
explanation below.

Anecdotally, (through contact with Paremts of trans kids over there) adopted children are overrepresented in gender clinics in the US. That would correspond to the poor attachment issues in that paper.

Children who have been taken into care are especially vulnerable for a number of reasons including possible abuse / attachment / trauma, also as they are isolated it may be that some are more prone to online contagion/influence/grooming etc

Additionally, social care workers, foster carers etc may have been required to follow affirmation approach.
In UK, toolkits & resources for both the children & adults have been created by TRAs:

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

How awful about the adopted / in care element. How much is wrong there.

And could overstretched and frazzled social workers etc just not have the time to do the complex and exhausting work it must take to get to the bottom of a story? To find out what lies beneath?

Affirmation without question must be an easier option - no coaching, counselling, listening skills, research, guidance etc required. Just the skill to say 'yes, dear. Here's a binder catalogue.'

And could overstretched and frazzled social workers etc just not have the time to do the complex and exhausting work it must take to get to the bottom of a story? To find out what lies beneath?

Affirmation without question must be an easier option - no coaching, counselling, listening skills, research, guidance etc required. Just the skill to say 'yes, dear. Here's a binder catalogue.'

Maybe you missed the issues caused by policies & guidance lobbied by TRAs in Social Care? Same as NHS, Prisons, Education, civil service.
There is a Memorandum of Understanding still in place which also impacts.

April 2018 Important extended La Scapigliata article,
"It is not “woman”, but “transgender”, that is a truly elusive term, and how this relates to the statistics of trans youth suicide"

(extract)
Evidence suggests that mental illness, and especially depression, anxiety, bipolar and dissociative disorder, is present in 70%] of individuals with gender dysphoria, either concurrently or at some time during their lifetime. Which brings me to another way by which suicidality in trans youth can be misinterpreted – by diagnosing them incorrectly.

In psychiatry, there exists a hierarchy of diagnoses.

IMG_1609 (see screenshot)

I’d also like to mention psychiatric symptom of ambivalence, which is particularly distressing when it involves one’s own body, sex, gender or sexuality. This ambivalence is not just wondering whether one might be attracted to the opposite sex as the normal stage in sexual development. This is ambivalence that arises from disordered thinking which characterises severe mental illness.

That a lot of mental illnesses tend to develop in youth, and are often accompanied by suicidal ideation and even attempts, illustrates the pitfall with trying to attribute suicidality to “being trans”. Mental illness doesn’t “co-occur” with transgenderism, in fact, symptoms which, in isolation, might justify someone’s inclusion under transgender umbrella, in context of mental illness higher up in the hierarchy, are more likely just symptoms of that illness.

This is important because if the person with mental illness is misdiagnosed as “trans”, and instead of being given treatment for mental illness is fast-tracked down the path of gender transition, it can severely impact their life.

There is a great book written by Walter Heyer , who himself detransitioned (male-to-female-back to male), that talks about this issue, as well as this survey of female detransitioners.

I’ve looked after a few trans patients who were admitted to the psychiatric ward on 1:1 suicide watch, due to repeated and relentless suicide attempts following gender reassignment surgery. Most of them had history of suicidal ideation and suicide attempts. What stays with me after all these years is that they were some of the most distressed patients I have ever seen. Their distress wasn’t only in realising that gender reassignment didn’t cure their troubling feelings, but in the fact that they now had to live with their bodies being mutilated irreversibly. It goes without saying that severe psychological distress doesn’t lend itself to the kind of self-care most of these procedures require post-op, which can lead to increased complications which further impact on the patient’s life in an iatrogenic (doctor-caused) vicious cycle that could’ve been avoided

These patients, and many others who suffer worsening physical and metal health following gender transition, are currently swiped under the rug, silenced like gender-critical people, and institutions are obstructing research into phenomenon of detransition, under the same accusations of heresy against trans ideology." (continues)

lascapigliata8.wordpress.com/2018/04/10/it-is-not-woman-but-transgender-that-is-a-truly-elusive-term-and-how-this-relates-to-the-statistics-of-trans-youth-suicide/

About the author,
"Writer, doctor, feminist. Wearer of many hats."

Rowantrees Reading your rather overlong posts clearly indicates you understand nothing of the transsexual condition

Gathering information only from a few individuals whose views are again merely personal, and only if they say what you wish to hear to bear out your theories

Ive just checked & the handful of articles that I have quoted in this thread are from professional HCPs, scientists, social workers & people who are/were transsexual /transgender.

I read a gret deal & only link/ share quotes which seem be relevent to the discussion.
I don't limit my reading, nor do I have 'theories' that I seek to prove.
Nor do I make baseless accusations.

HTH

They don't call me a cynic for nothing.

How much do they charge you?

I bet if you shop around there are some good deals to be had.

Once more before I'm deleted I will suggest that racial theories of the 20th Century are now the trans theories of the 21st.

I don’t think that sentence means what you think it means.

I have identified a number of different causes in my own young adult daughter's rush to physically transition into a 'non-binary trans boy.' She now describes herself as a 'gay boy' despite being in a relationship with another (non-binary) female.

Trauma - several years of a personally traumatic situation in her life. Announced she was non-binary then trans very shortly after the situation was 'resolved'.

Sudden hatred of female body, especially breasts - linked to the trauma.

Identity issues - linked to the trauma.

Being a 'lesbian' could no longer cut it - not oppressed enough, not cool enough, not acceptable enough, not interesting enough, won't get you a ticket into the inner circle of queer, fashionable beings such as Alok, Fox and Owl and dear Travis.

Wanting to escape the past and the self that was associated with this past - linked to trauma.

Vulnerable and susceptible time in her life - linked to trauma.

Was an 'outsider' and thought she had 'failed' - linked to the trauma.

The times we live in - the Internet and the influence of other disturbed young people who think they are trans.

Had this been even just a few years ago, our GP would doubtless have suggested some sort of therapy to begin with, instead of referring her on to the Gender Identity Clinic after one quick chat in which she self-diagnosed her own 'problem.'

This is not an exhaustive list but you get the picture.

For young people I think it's trauma of whatever type plus a society that says it's acceptable (stunning and brave) to self-diagnose and go straight down a medical pathway of hormones and surgery.

Hacsi Horvath's article (thank you for reposting this Rowan) seems to sum up the fervent mania and euphoric rush that surrounds the absolute compulsion to transition regardless of the cost.

vitriolic

Oh do find a new bloody word.

R0wantrees has never been vitriolic in her life. You just don't like the content of her posts. Nothing to do with the tone or length of them.

SisterWendyBuckett - fab post. And .

From reading this thread I think the word "trauma" is the key point. So many of these trans people have had some kind of trauma in their formative years, and maybe this set them on the path to being trans.

I remember reading years ago April Ashley's autobiography. To me, she is a true transsexual, the person who was born in the wrong body. A tiny minority of people - but that was her. She had a sex change and said she would never be, or really see herself as, a woman. She was a transsexual. What a difference from the current trans dogma and rigid thinking

And if you look at, for example, Lily Madigan's background, you will see big pointers why they ended up the way they are. Socially awkward growing up, a masculine/macho father who would be uncomfortable with a gay son; family break-up, a favoured brother, a girly sister who got all the attention. Madigan was very effeminate at school - and pupils saw them as a gay male. Madigan was starved of attention - so they went down the trans path. Coupled with a sincere, in my opinion, interest in politics and a desire to "agitate" they have become who they have become.

This is quite interesting for the Madigan family background:

archive.is/KiWqj

From reading this thread I think the word "trauma" is the key point. So many of these trans people have had some kind of trauma in their formative years, and maybe this set them on the path to being trans.

Museum of Liverpool Exhibition: April Ashley, Portrait of a Lady 2013
(extract)
"A difficult childhood
April Ashley was born George Jamieson, one of six children to Frederick, who served in the Royal Navy, and Ada, a factory worker.

The family's poor living conditions meant they were soon moved by Liverpool Corporation from Pitt Street, in the Chinatown area, to Norris Green. Although born a boy, April always felt and looked like a girl. Childhood was a lonely and very confusing time. At St Teresa's primary school she was bullied for being different. As a teenager April did not grow facial hair, her voice refused to break and she began to develop breasts.

Struggles with identity
Aged 15, April joined the Merchant Navy as "I decided to face up to my situation and it seemed to be one of the things that made you a man". Feeling and looking different in this very masculine environment, however, was very challenging. Whilst on leave in America, and seeing no way out, she attempted suicide in 1952. After recovering she was given a dishonourable discharge.

Back in Liverpool, April continued to struggle alone with her gender identity and in 1953 made another attempt to take her own life by jumping into the River Mersey. She was sent to Ormskirk Hospital psychiatric unit and later treated at Walton Hospital. Her care was brutal and included sodium pentothal injections and electro convulsive treatment followed by a course of male hormones. The experiences were devastating and had a detrimental effect on April's health and well-being. In 1955, aged 20, April decided to leave Liverpool for London." (continues)
www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol/exhibitions/april-ashley/early-life.aspx

interesting to read also on the site:
(extract)
"She lobbied and wrote to Prime Minister Tony Blair and the Lord Chancellor, remaining resolutely committed to changing the law for all transgender people.

In 2005, after the passage of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, April was finally legally recognised as female and issued with a new birth certificate. The then Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, who had previously worked with April in the 1950s, helped her with the procedure"

Oh dear SoSoCynical
As Horse with no Frills suggests you really should be paid for your cynicism, you're getting a crap deal and I loved that comment Horse

R0
Just thank you once again from a lurker, your posts have really helped me to actually understand what the actual fuck is happening

Just thank you once again from a lurker, your posts have really helped me to actually understand what the actual fuck is happening

Yes, thank you R0wantrees from me also.

SisterWendyBuckett I really don't know what to say. Hope you and your daughter are okay.

16/4/2019
Unherd article by Julie Bindel:
'The birth of the transsexual empire
One woman saw the trans bullies coming'
(extract)
“Transsexualism has taken only twenty-five years to become a household word,” reads the opening line of the 1979 book, The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the She-Male. The author, Janice Raymond, a renowned academic and feminist campaigner, caused a massive kerfuffle when she published the work, which seriously tackled the theory and consequences of diagnosing the feelings of body dysphoria and the unbearable desire to live and present as the opposite sex.

Raymond wrote TTE as a response to the rising rates of sex-change surgery in the US. She had long been concerned about the medical practices that negatively impacted women, such as unnecessary hysterectomies and caesareans. This led her to question the medical consequences of the bodily mutilation inherent in transsexual surgery, and the detrimental effects of taking lifelong hormones. (continues)

Forty years ago Raymond wrote, “Masculine behaviour is notably obtrusive”. She was referring to the level of notoriety achieved by the trans woman Renee Richards “in the wake of the Tennis Week Open”. Richards fought to compete on a level playing field with natal women. The New York Times review of TTE read: “The transsexual propagandists claim to transform ‘women trapped in men’s bodies’ into ‘real’ women and want them to be accepted socially as females (say, in professional tennis).”

Not only was The Transsexual Empire prescient – so too was the response to the book. Raymond experienced the kind of backlash that is endured by anyone who questions trans women’s rights today. Martina Navratilova was hounded on Twitter after she wrote a piece examining transgender participation in women’s sport; upon the publication of TTE, the transsexual lobby accused Raymond of bigotry and said the book constituted ‘hate speech’. (continues)

concludes:
Four decades ago, Raymond saw how in a society obsessed with gender rules which determine how women and men should behave, that it would become easier and more acceptable to change bodies rather than behaviour. Did she also foresee how aggressive and demanding trans activists would eventually become, where ‘mis-gendering’ a trans person can be treated as a ‘hate crime’ and reported to police?

“Yes” she tells me. “I always suspected that transsexualism would change women’s lives in a way that would attempt to define us out of existence.”
unherd.com/2019/04/the-transsexual-empire/?=sideshare

SoSoCynical

Maybe you're new to FWR?
My primary focus is Safeguarding frameworks which are intended to protect children & vulnerable adults.

see thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

That you might believe my focus is to 'destroy' people who are transsexual/trangender says more about you than me.

Its not all about you.

Is there some binary I'm new to? Like, if you don't say vitriol you must invoke Godwin?

How many crops have you withered this week, R0?!

(Just thought I'd be first with a witch reference. It's all that's left, I think.)

How many crops have you withered this week, R0?!

Lang I do have a sad looking plant on my window sill which I am a little saddened by.
Not sure as to the cause & now wondering if I should consider re-homing the others for their own sakes

Mind the neighbour's cattle while you're about it!

Indeed
(they're very nice cattle too)