Are there identifiable causes for being trans?

[T1meForDebate]

Fionne is sharing some heartbreaking testimonies on Twitter from transwomen who were manipulated by their mothers - I do wonder if sometimes women project 'I wish you had been a girl' so strongly that the impressionable child starts to try to please?

Then there's the three year old boy who said he was a girl - only when given time to talk did it come out that his parents had a younger daughter with many special needs including extra time and attention. Little boy can only conclude they love girls more - so he insists he's a girl.

Debbie, the transman who transitioned at 44 (when menopause hit, maybe?) - and 15 years later bitterly regrets it because she's come to terms with the fact that it was triggered by her father's sexual abuse

The whole feeling lowest of the low if you're a lesbian or gay teen - but suddenly fashionably fascinating if you say you're trans

Irresponsible magazine calling a school the coolest in the country because so many children say they're trans - who wouldn't want to join the latest craze and get called cool in print?

Autistic children who find dealing with the world so difficult, suddenly also having to cope with new bits that look, feel, smell and behave differently, including hurting, and attracting wierd unwanted attention, reactions and touching

Kids whose interests, behaviour and dress don't fit the prescribed pink and blue approval lists being ushered through the 'you're clearly trans' door

Adults (including parents) who are so committed to wanting children kept in a pre adolescent form for longer than is natural that they develop, prescribe, promote and lobby for puberty blockers (what's that about?)

Charming, articulate and cute transmen publishing chirpy polished how-to videos on Instagram flourishing binders, mastectomy and phalloplasty scars to community cooing response - what a lovely welcoming sense of belonging endorphins that must trigger

final para removed by MN as it broke guidelines
explanation below.

Many of those transrights activists who have been so involved in the lobbying & creation of policies, services etc which impact both women's rights & safeguarding frameworks are/were transsexuals.

One who springs to mind is Stephen Whittle, who occasionally pops onto mumsnet to tell us all how wrong we are.

If transsexuals step away from the claim that they are actually women and petition for a third space and allow women our space, then I have no problem with them at all.

Whittle, Lees and Burns are their darlings, merely stealing the term of transsexual to suit their particular political preferences (like self ID).
All transsexuals. They've been diagnosed, transitioned, gotten medication and everything.

You can't call someone not a transsexual just because you disagree with their political outlook. That sounds a bit transphobic to me.

Its interesting how often when a letter/petition/article is written there is a call/attempt for women here to affirm & validate the TS involved.
It is interesting. I've been guilty of it myself before. Female socialisation, eh?

If transsexuals step away from the claim that they are actually women and petition for a third space and allow women our space, then I have no problem with them at all.
Agreed 100%

SoSoCynical
I am well aware of the history of transrights activism, the role of prominant transsexuals/transvestites.

The article I linked was in response to your denial that transsexuals were involved in the creation of the legsislation which impacts women's rights & Safeguarding frameworks today.

Its a series of interviews which provides a summary background & a shorter read than the thread I linked.

And these characters are supposed to speak for the sensible transsexual people who are ignored and seldom heard. God help us all.

They have been doing so for years, with respect Im not sure patronising or appealing to women here is the best way to challenge this.

heresyisthenewblack But you disagree with their political outlook also. (unless I'm mistaken) Isn't that a bit transphobic of you?

It is interesting. I've been guilty of it myself before. Female socialisation, eh?

Female socialisation & also the appeal to it is one aspect.
Sometimes also male-entitlement & coercive control pattern behaviours have seemed present.

heresyisthenewblack But you disagree with their political outlook also. (unless I'm mistaken) Isn't that a bit transphobic of you?

There's a little boy at the sister nursery to work who says he is a girl, he usually comes in jeans but will take his twin sisters sparkly tops etc, he puts on a dress at nursery from the dressing up box. Is he trans? Nobody can really know, hes barely more than a baby but even 3 year olds have opinions. If a parent then reinforces childhood love of sequins then perhaps its environment?

R0wantrees Not everyone who transitions is necessarily transsexual. People like Whittle, Lees and Burns are questionable. And it depends on who their consultants were too. Remember Charles Kane and his suing of Russell Reid?

Patriarchy, homophobia, disliking experiences in puberty/ sexuality. Perhaps.

When I was 9/10 I would sometimes tell classmates I wanted to be a boy, mainly because I was a big fan of George from Famous Five! Got some positive attention. Obviously now I know that Enid Blyton was a massive arse, didn’t have that info then!

Was also pretty fed up with boys looking up my school skirt.

Hated puberty, largely due to comments on my body and weight from family members, and minor but regular street and school sexual harassment.

Cut my hair short and wore a lot of very baggy clothes for a few years, made friends with a group of girls who wore similar clothes, got a few homophobic comments (I’m straight) and grew my hair longer.

It depends how you describe transsexual really. It doesn't meet the legal definition but that's by the by. What is your definition?

There's a little boy at the sister nursery to work who says he is a girl, he usually comes in jeans but will take his twin sisters sparkly tops etc, he puts on a dress at nursery from the dressing up box. Is he trans? Nobody can really know, hes barely more than a baby but even 3 year olds have opinions.

He is a boy
He has a twin sister
He likes sometimes wearing dresses & sparkly tops
This doesn't make him a girl or 'trans'

When adults around him start to speculate that 'he might be trans' this impacts a child's understanding.

SoSoCynical
Forgive me if I am mistaken, but you seemed to imply that these very prominent transactivists (who would meet any reasonable definition of transsexual from the medical intervention standpoint) are not "real transsexuals" or something?

I disagree with the transactivist political outlook, sure. I disagree if someone claims to actually be the opposite sex, or that they know what the opposite sex feels like as some kind of inner essence (because I think true sex changes are medically impossible, and I don't think we have sexed souls/brains).

However, I would not deny that Whittle, Burns and Lees are transsexuals.

R0wantrees Not everyone who transitions is necessarily transsexual. People like Whittle, Lees and Burns are questionable.

Its slightly reminscent of the "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?" debates.
I think such discussions are best had with the people concerned.
It doesn't seem very civil to deny individuals' transsexual experiences here.

I ve just had to agree with a social worker that yes I do get upset when traumatised teen we are caring for mentions gender. But no short way of explaining that sh has been brainwashed on tumblr and taught that any response apart from yes is transphobic and so I am walking n eggshells. It s all shit, but I would be quite happy to let her play with the other sparkly unicorns if I didn’t know that at some point she will be blaming me for letting this be the focus and allowing her to mutilate herself instead of getting help for her dissociation following years f neglect and emotional abuse.. what the fuck do I do.

3dogs2cats Have you seen this thread?
There may be some useful links:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

That's awful 3dogs poor girl and poor you.

Homophobia is a definite cause. Economist have done a feature on it.

3dogs2cats
Jesicca Eaton (Victim Focus) may be a really good point of support for both you & the young person you are caring for. (you'll see her comments in theOP of the linked thread)
Victim Focus website www.victimfocus.org.uk/

twitter twitter.com/Jessicae13Eaton

”Presumably if there is a biological reason for GNC behaviour,"

Is there?

Many many people are GNC to a great or lesser extent. I'd go as far as saying it was the norm.

I said “if” because nobody knows how much behaviour is innate and how much learned. And I used the term “GNC behaviour” as part of the current discussion revolves around that particular trope. For what it’s worth, I don’t think much behaviour is exclusively gendered, though some is probably influenced by biology.

My suspicion is that there may be some biological elements/tendencies to being gay. There definitely appears to be a higher correlation of “GNC behaviour” (for want of a better term) with homosexuality. But for now, until science catches up, we’ll have to remain in the dark.

But I’m frankly amused by the turn this conversation has taken. As far as I understand it, a transsexual is literally a person who has undergone full transition (or as near to it as is medically safe for that person). To pretend that despite undergoing full transition, someone is probably not transsexual is just

Wish we could go back to the days when trans was a treatment for a disorder, and not some faerie state of mind, that nobody except the divine few can perceive.

It’s a really interesting/odd one, I know two transsexuals and I sometimes ask what made you feel like a man/woman.

I’m a man but I have no idea what makes me feel like a man beyond my genitals, if someone asked what being male feels like i would have no idea what to say. One of my exs is very femme, sometimes wears make up, heels, womens clothes etc, but is still very much a man and feels very much so that he is a man.

Wonder if you’re friend was young now they might opt for non binary in regards to gender.

It's a good question Toorah. I don't think I'd ask her but she does present as feminine. There is one thing about her transition that troubles me. People gossip and in her professional life when men become aware of her past, they snigger and pronounce her name (behind her back) as "A-man-da". I suspect though it's insecurity as professionally she can buy and sell them.