Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Are there identifiable causes for being trans?

182 replies

T1meForDebate · 11/04/2019 10:21

Fionne is sharing some heartbreaking testimonies on Twitter from transwomen who were manipulated by their mothers - I do wonder if sometimes women project 'I wish you had been a girl' so strongly that the impressionable child starts to try to please?

Then there's the three year old boy who said he was a girl - only when given time to talk did it come out that his parents had a younger daughter with many special needs including extra time and attention. Little boy can only conclude they love girls more - so he insists he's a girl.

Debbie, the transman who transitioned at 44 (when menopause hit, maybe?) - and 15 years later bitterly regrets it because she's come to terms with the fact that it was triggered by her father's sexual abuse

The whole feeling lowest of the low if you're a lesbian or gay teen - but suddenly fashionably fascinating if you say you're trans

Irresponsible magazine calling a school the coolest in the country because so many children say they're trans - who wouldn't want to join the latest craze and get called cool in print?

Autistic children who find dealing with the world so difficult, suddenly also having to cope with new bits that look, feel, smell and behave differently, including hurting, and attracting wierd unwanted attention, reactions and touching

Kids whose interests, behaviour and dress don't fit the prescribed pink and blue approval lists being ushered through the 'you're clearly trans' door

Adults (including parents) who are so committed to wanting children kept in a pre adolescent form for longer than is natural that they develop, prescribe, promote and lobby for puberty blockers (what's that about?)

Charming, articulate and cute transmen publishing chirpy polished how-to videos on Instagram flourishing binders, mastectomy and phalloplasty scars to community cooing response - what a lovely welcoming sense of belonging endorphins that must trigger

final para removed by MN as it broke guidelines
explanation below.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
NeurotrashWarrior · 11/04/2019 18:55

Erin Brewer has GD and understands the roots of it in her own case.

She has adhd and was sexually assaulted as a child but was also fairly gnc.

She talks a lot about the very many reasons that a child or teen develops GD. She also is very concerned that affirmation is now the key treatment as she is grateful she wasn't treated with affirmation and had other therapy instead.

I think I picked up she may have focussed her phd on all this; I'm not sure.

This is her channel:

She has a website too.

www.chooseyourowndiagnosis.com/

3dogs2cats · 11/04/2019 20:49

Thank you ROwantrees and Ereshkigal. I have looked at it

R0wantrees · 11/04/2019 21:32

3dogs2cats
Jessicca Eaton (Victim Focus) does excellent work supporting young people impacted by abuse
You may well also find some helpful contacts & resources via TransgenderTrend
There are people out there with relevent experience & expertise.

T1meForDebate · 12/04/2019 09:03

It seems that what lies beneath may be traced to fear and trauma -

Child/teen sexual abuse, bullying by homophobic relatives or acquaintances, internalised homophobia, placating real or perceived rejection by people who'd rather they'd been the opposite sex, fear of missing out and losing a peer group

Seeking sense of belonging and tribe - that welcoming 'we're a community' feel both in real life and online

Plenty of women love the whole lipstick, stockings and suspenders look and feel and we're agreed I think that gender is bunk (wear and enjoy what you like!). At the moment the message is 'if you like this you're this, if you like that you're that' which maybe some trans women have bought into - society pressure?

One thing we haven't considered is - kink. Where do these come from? I think they can start very young, in impressionable formative years, regardless of how long they take to come out.

So - what causes the AGP kink?

Trying to make sense of the incomprehensible if you're neuro atypical and struggling to cope - that's it! Of course - I'm trans and it will all finally make sense if I could just put everything right.

OP posts:
Sarahjconnor · 12/04/2019 09:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

T1meForDebate · 12/04/2019 11:22

That Munchausen by proxy idea does ring true - imagine the strokes the supportive mums must get from the community, stunning and brave by proxy, tiger mums defending their cubs ...

OP posts:
T1meForDebate · 12/04/2019 11:30

Plus I think there are real power play issues going on - being in the papers, TV, radio, being a pundit - and the MONEY being thrown at these organisations!

OP posts:
Thingybob · 12/04/2019 15:31

The root of the issue, however, is inappropriate medicalisation of a social problem

Mermaids just tweeted this slide from a presentation by Joanne Olsen-Kennedy (all the trans parents seem to love her) at the epath conference. Surely it agrees that GD is caused by the social problem of gendered expectations?

Doesn't it also point to parents being 100% responsible for very young children being GD as parents have the power to be in complete control of a child's social environment.

Are there identifiable causes for being trans?
R0wantrees · 12/04/2019 15:39

Surely it agrees that GD is caused by the social problem of gendered expectations?

The slide has some glaring ommissions in terms of possible contributory factors.

Thingybob · 12/04/2019 16:00

The slide has some glaring ommissions in terms of possible contributory factors

?????

Maybe some of those omissions are not relevant as the slide relates to children. Although I also suspect that some of the contributory factors we see in adulthood may be the result of childhood gendered expectations.

R0wantrees · 13/04/2019 12:16

?????

.., homophobia, abuse/trauma, AGP, social contagion etc
all have been raised on the thread as potentially significant.

LassOfFyvie · 13/04/2019 12:31

The only trans person I know in real life is ftm. He was always , as posters here would say, "gender non- conforming" in appearance from the earliest age he had any say in the matter and his parents had no problem with this. His mother was a big fan of things like Pink Stinks" and isn't particularly feminine herself.

His family have several gay friends and their children always knew these friends were gay. His sister is a lesbian. He , prior to transitioning aged 25, was heterosexual. Post transition he is still attracted to men (I don't know how that will work out in practice)

I have known him all his life. One can never be 100% sure what goes on behind closed doors but I don't believe for one minute he was abused as a child. Homophobia or enforcing stereotypes doesn't enter into it at all.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 13/04/2019 12:48

Do you know if your friend had/has social or body dysphoria, Lass? I think also that even if your friends family modelled at home that being GNC is ok (good even!) your friend will still have received an enormous number of messages from peers and the media that the way they presented themselves wasn't normal "for a woman". My mum always let me dress how I wanted, do what I wanted etc, she never shaved or wore makeup or "performed femininity" in any way, and never promoted any food issues or anything, but that didn't stop me developing an eating disorder in my teens as a result of having airbrushed size zeros pushed on me by every media source as the ideal beauty standard. I had excellent role models and plenty of friends in all shapes and sizes but my ED was still very much socially induced.

LassOfFyvie · 13/04/2019 13:27

Not that I'm aware of. So far as not "presenting as a woman" before transitioning she wore jeans , t- shirts and sneakers most of the time but definitely not a butch Lea Delaria vibe. She was , and this is going to sound disparaging but isn't meant to, an averagely pretty girl and young woman.

R0wantrees · 13/04/2019 13:45

I have known him all his life. One can never be 100% sure what goes on behind closed doors but I don't believe for one minute he was abused as a child.

As a general point (not specific to your friend), I find anyone's assertion in their belief that another was not/could not have been abused extraordinary.

Its worth reading this incredibly powerful & moving interview with a woman whose complex PTSD & childhood sexual abuse was not identified until she was in her 50's (having mistakenly gone through medical & surgical 'transition')
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6351711/Hemel-Hempstead-transgender-man-60-regrets-gender-reassignment-surgery-11-years-on.html

There is a need to understand better complex PTSD/complex trauma responses.

R0wantrees · 13/04/2019 14:32
Hmm
Are there identifiable causes for being trans?
Oblomov19 · 13/04/2019 16:05

I agree with nearly all the points. It's complex and it's affected by a plethora of things.

Makes me so sad. I just think it's all the rage right now, just like a pp said being bi was. A lot of Girls in ds1's year have anxiety, camhs, self harming, bi, gay, a few trans.

It sort of feels like they, not all, but some, being normal isn't enough, they need something else, extreme to cling on to. Which seems such a shame.

LassOfFyvie · 13/04/2019 16:17

I find anyone's assertion in their belief that another was not/could not have been abused extraordinary

It was in response to this

All the evidence I have seen supports homophobic/abusive families

I have seen absolutely nothing in my friend's life to support this.

R0wantrees · 13/04/2019 16:29

I have seen absolutely nothing in my friend's life to support this.

As I said previously, I am not commenting on your friend however surely you acknowlege how frequently this would be said by close friends & family of many people who have been subject to familial abuse?

Its a very common feature.

HorsewithnoFrills · 13/04/2019 17:02

Derren Brown screens candidates for his subjects. Some people are much more suggestible than others, some more resilient to manipulation.

There was a great programme on r4 last week about hypnosis which confirmed this. There is so much that we don't really know about the mind, I think.

HorsewithnoFrills · 13/04/2019 17:08

It surely is a mental health issue..

I think that.

And nobody wants to be (or even appear to be) mean spirited towards a sufferer.

HorsewithnoFrills · 13/04/2019 17:09

I fear another one - Munchausen’s by proxy.

I have though that but didn't dare say it.

HorsewithnoFrills · 13/04/2019 17:09

Thought

R0wantrees · 13/04/2019 19:03

ORIGINAL RESEARCH ARTICLE
Front. Psychol., 01 February 2018

'Attachment Patterns and Complex Trauma in a Sample of Adults Diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria'
(extract)
Although it has been proven that the psychological wellbeing of gender diverse persons is largely mediated by family acceptance and support, research on their relationships with parental figures is scarce. A total of 95 adults took part in the study. The attachment distribution was as follows: 27% secure, 27% insecure and 46% disorganized. Regarding early traumas, 56% experienced four or more traumatic forms. Further, gender dysphoric adults showed significantly higher levels of attachment disorganization and polyvictimisation, relative to controls. Comparisons of subgroups, defined by natal gender, showed that trans women, compared to control males, had more involving and physically and psychologically abusive fathers, and were more often separated from their mothers; trans men, relative to female controls, had more involving mothers and were more frequently separated from and neglected by their fathers. The research has several implications for treatment, clinical health psychology, family support and education." (continues)
www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.00060/full

CottonDuvet · 13/04/2019 21:58

Anecdotally, (through contact with Paremts of trans kids over there) adopted children are overrepresented in gender clinics in the US. That would correspond to the poor attachment issues in that paper.

Swipe left for the next trending thread