Are there identifiable causes for being trans?

[T1meForDebate]

Fionne is sharing some heartbreaking testimonies on Twitter from transwomen who were manipulated by their mothers - I do wonder if sometimes women project 'I wish you had been a girl' so strongly that the impressionable child starts to try to please?

Then there's the three year old boy who said he was a girl - only when given time to talk did it come out that his parents had a younger daughter with many special needs including extra time and attention. Little boy can only conclude they love girls more - so he insists he's a girl.

Debbie, the transman who transitioned at 44 (when menopause hit, maybe?) - and 15 years later bitterly regrets it because she's come to terms with the fact that it was triggered by her father's sexual abuse

The whole feeling lowest of the low if you're a lesbian or gay teen - but suddenly fashionably fascinating if you say you're trans

Irresponsible magazine calling a school the coolest in the country because so many children say they're trans - who wouldn't want to join the latest craze and get called cool in print?

Autistic children who find dealing with the world so difficult, suddenly also having to cope with new bits that look, feel, smell and behave differently, including hurting, and attracting wierd unwanted attention, reactions and touching

Kids whose interests, behaviour and dress don't fit the prescribed pink and blue approval lists being ushered through the 'you're clearly trans' door

Adults (including parents) who are so committed to wanting children kept in a pre adolescent form for longer than is natural that they develop, prescribe, promote and lobby for puberty blockers (what's that about?)

Charming, articulate and cute transmen publishing chirpy polished how-to videos on Instagram flourishing binders, mastectomy and phalloplasty scars to community cooing response - what a lovely welcoming sense of belonging endorphins that must trigger

final para removed by MN as it broke guidelines
explanation below.

Rod Liddel in The Spectator has implied that transgender folk are really just gay men who love wanking. Since it is now popular to throw transsexuals into the transgender mix, his statement becomes rather laughable. While he may indeed be right about the transgender group it would hardly apply to transsexuals, since they no longer have an organ to play with. QED?

Bullied and abused children search for a reason to 'blame' themselves, to make their abusers less bad because there's something 'wrong' with them that explains the abuse.

Growing up, some appear to become attached to that concept of the 'wrong' element and celebrate it, rather than truly seeing their abusers for what they were and realising there was absolutely nothing wrong with them. Being the victim is worse than being different in some way. See Sarah Brown's blog, Paris Lees' descriptions of their childhood.

A relative of mine has had a lifelong eating disorder but also has a happy marriage. The two aren't interdependent - she could have had a happy marriage without the eating disorder imo.

By that very same logic: your friend is not biologically a woman, so cannot possibly know what being female "feels like." Your friend is not of the female sex. Then or now

Nor does she claim to be. What she feels is that she's more comfortable living as a woman. My friend does not partake in any trans activism, and unless she told you, you wouldn't know she was a man. She made a life change that led her to extreme happiness.

Teen girls have always been very quick to pick up social trends around language, fashion, and such, I am sure that is part of it in that age group.

I also wonder about the parent thing. Some of the parents remind me of certain ones I knew about 20 years ago who became obsessed with their kids having allergies, or more recently with multiple food sensitivities - either out of proportion to what seemed to be the reality or in ways that seemed completely made up. For them it seemed to be a matter of being attached to a cause, attention, and an acceptable way to be very controlling of their children.
But, a lot of the young parents I know really believe it all - they have really just drunk the kool-aid about sex not relating to genitals, and when they see a kid who is non-gender conforming, they suspect they are trans. They also seem to believe clothes and toys should be non-gendered, which seems a weird combination - but in reality it means for them encouraging boys to play with girls toys, and preventing girls from doing so. All very mixed up.

Rod Liddel in The Spectator has implied that transgender folk...

There are clearly a range of factors and the sex of the person who idendifies as transgender/transexual is particularly relevent

BMJ
Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

open access link here:
www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

Conflating the experiences of males & females as trans folk/people etc prevents meaningful enagagement in needs.
Similarly statistics which measure offending risk profiles etc of 'people who are transgender' denies the recognition of the sex based realities.

Nor does she claim to be. What she feels is that she's more comfortable living as a woman. My friend does not partake in any trans activism, and unless she told you, you wouldn't know she was a man. She made a life change that led her to extreme happiness.

I am very happy your friend has a good life, and does not deny biological sex. I genuinely wish them well.

What I am pointing out is that if you're saying that your friend "identifies as a woman," by your own earlier logic your friend cannot possibly know what being a woman "feels like" in order to "live as a woman." Because your friend is not an actual woman.

My concern is simply that there seems to exist a double-standard when talking about transgenderism. Trans people supposedly "know" they have some sort of soul-like essence that allows them to claim a cross-sex identity for themselves - but actual members of the opposite sex are not allowed to point out the impossibility of such a claim, or explain that they don't think there are such "womanly" or "manly" feelings.

as is rapidly happening proved by the government's intention to erase transsexuals from the debate altogether

This has been as a consequence of the prominant transgender lobbyists who have steered government & public policy.

SoSoCynical
We seem to have posted at the same time but you might find the link above from BMJ worth considering.

Autogynophilia.

Racial theory of the 20th Century has now been superseded by trans theory in the 21st.

I think trans theory actually is very regressive - as it implies our personality types are anchored to masculinity or femininity. It says if you feel like neither gender role "fits" you, you need to change your name, take off-license drugs for the rest of your life, and have surgery to remove your reproductive organs.

The women on MN who are questioning this are arguing for less intervention, not more. Additionally, the astonishingly rapid increase in teenage natal females (many who have real psychiatric comorbidities and are very vulnerable) presenting to change gender likely represents a new group of trans patients, with complex needs. I think you'll find that feminists are being very responsible by taking an interest in this to preserve female health.

What I am pointing out is that if you're saying that your friend "identifies as a woman," by your own earlier logic your friend cannot possibly know what being a woman "feels like" in order to "live as a woman." Because your friend is not an actual woman

I agree she can never know what being a woman feels like. But to your next point, my friend thinks there are such things as womanly feelings. You might not. She would not tell you're not allowed to think as you do.

My post was to answer the OP - my friend felt she could relate to womanhood more than manhood. That is how she felt. Others may think such feelings can not be possible. What her life since transition has proved is that she lives free from mental health issues, not a single regret about transitioning.

I would also like to point out that it's transactivists who are promoting medical treatment which results in sterilisation - including what can reasonably be described as experimenting on children. It is transactivists who say you should change your body in the name of an "inner essence" and promote their political ideology by aggressive means (bomb threat, masked protests, assault on a grandmother).

I don't think the feminists are the scary ones in this scenario.

At a critical point of rumination, after the patient has sufficiently disparaged his or her actual life and idealized life as the opposite sex, he or she realizes that body parts of the opposite sex may be obtained through the services of doctors (Raymond 1979, Billings 1982). Actually transforming into the opposite sex starts to seem feasible. The self-conception “splits” in two, and idealization becomes identity. Having negated any value in their actual male or female presence in the world, and now feeling themselves to actually be the self-generated persona, patients perseveratively ask themselves, “what’s stopping me?” “Feasibility” seems to trigger the split. Here begins the acute phase of GD.

I think feasibility is key. Back in my day it was OK for me "to be" a boy because everyone knew it wasn't really true and couldn't possibly be really engineered. We just had to get on with reality. There was no masking, no pretence, no doctors, no Mermaids telling us that yes, it could be done. We had to accept reality -- and in the end we did. I became a woman very satisfied in her own body.

Thank you, waterygrass for the very clear explanation.

heresyisthenewblack Naturally the preservation of female health is paramount. So is that of children. And so is that of transsexuals being that transsexuality is a medically-diagnosed condition. In contrast transgenderism is not. I saw this on another post before it got deleted. Quote - "Qualified physicians will tell you that a transsexual person is someone who has undergone major surgery and requires a lifetime of care while a self identified non medicated transgender person with a fully intact body of natal sex requires none. Therefore by removing that specific diagnosis for the former, care could be jeopardized putting lives in danger. Fine for those who love dressing up but catastrophic for those with actual sex based dysphoria because access to health care would be at risk since it does not apply to the transgender population." Transsexuals are clearly not the enemy. They are in fact our allies. It is not they who are coming for our spaces, it is the transgender crowd whom we should fear.

My post was to answer the OP - my friend felt she could relate to womanhood more than manhood. That is how she felt. Others may think such feelings can not be possible

I doubt many would deny a person's feelings/beliefs the issue is when some people's feelings/beliefs are required to be validated by others as fact and when feelings/beliefs require public policy, medical interventions & laws which impact others.

As the transwidows threads on FWR demonstrate, the impact on female partners & children is substantial & often denied.

A key concern is when adults' beliefs/ideologies impact children.

My friend doesn't deny she's biologically a man. But she doesn't feel like one. We're not her. We don't know what it feels like to be her then or now.

Waterygrass - I’m glad it’s worked out for your friend. I guess back when your friend was struggling and if you just don’t feel you fit in the male camp, the only other camp was female. Wonder if you’re friend was young now they might opt for non binary in regards to gender. I can see why young folk might go for nb as a way to rebel against a stereotyped, sexist society- just can’t get to grips with the insistence that they are literally neither male or female.

Transsexuals are clearly not the enemy. They are in fact our allies. It is not they who are coming for our spaces, it is the transgender crowd whom we should fear.

It has been repeated established that there is not the clear separation between Transsexuals & the 'Transgender Crowd' which some would seek to draw.
Many of those transrights activists who have been so involved in the lobbying & creation of policies, services etc which impact both women's rights & safeguarding frameworks are/were transsexuals.

This thread below which collates some of the history of the trans rights movement is really worth reading.
As AngryAttackKittens commented,

"I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

Many of those transrights activists who have been so involved in the lobbying & creation of policies, services etc which impact both women's rights & safeguarding frameworks are/were transsexuals.

Who says so? Of whom do you speak? I'd suggest those individuals are not and were never transsexual in the first place, whether they believed themselves to be or not. Or they have simply been brainwashed or bullied by the transgenderists. These people certainly do not speak for transsexuals who believe in the sanctity of female spaces.

Who says so? Of whom do you speak?

Please see thread linked previously which covers this in some detail.

For shorter read, Guardian 2013 wide ranging interview with some prominant UK transsexuals discussing the formation of 'Press For Change' & their campaigning:

'Voices from the trans community: 'There will always be prejudice'
It's more than 50 years since the UK's first trans person was outed in the press. So how do members of the community think life has changed for them since?'
www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jan/22/voices-from-trans-community-prejudice

Many of those transrights activists who have been so involved in the lobbying & creation of policies, services etc which impact both women's rights & safeguarding frameworks are/were transsexuals.

I seem to remember that petition for the Tavistock inquiry was put together by some transsexuals who are backed by Transgender Trend. Hardly the work of people who wish to remove safeguarding. Most ironic then that trans activists reported them to Twitter!

Transsexuals are clearly not the enemy. They are in fact our allies. It is not they who are coming for our spaces, it is the transgender crowd whom we should fear.

Firstly, nobody is really an "enemy," in my book. I just vehemently disagree with trans ideology and despise the tactics some transactivists use. I think tranactivists are very reckless with safeguarding vulnerable people, and they don't seem to have any interest in the knowledge feminists have about the female sex. (Probably because they pretend natal females don't actually exist as a real group of people, we're just a feeling in a man's head.) I wish everyone could sit around the table and discuss this, but it is one side that says "no debate." And that's not the concerned women absolutely begging to be heard. Your post seemed to call us on MN Nazis for asking why people (many of them vulnerable with mental health issues or have autism) are identifying as the opposite sex or no sex at all, in numbers that are unprecedented. Being trans in not, in and of itself, a negative outcome - but I do wonder why a young woman, perhaps with a history of PTSD from abuse (for example) might feel the need to undergo a double mastectomy and a "touch of testosterone" so she can express her "nonbinary gender identity." This is where we are at right now. In a normal field of medicine, these questions would be asked openly, not left to a forum on a parenting website. These are irreversible, serious medical interventions that result in sterility! Wondering why a cross-sex gender identity develops or working out if the group we call trans people is really a mixed bunch of individuals with different reasons for being trans would seem eminently scientifically sensible. In fact, asking hard questions is what any responsible psychologist/clinician/healthcare planner would usually do when confronted by an unexplained phenomenon, right?

I am afraid the trans umbrella (as devised by trans people) now encompasses all sorts, including part-timers and cross-dressers. The transgender/transsexual distinction is almost impossible for me to make now - especially given that many transactivists who are advocating the harmful/controversial policies are, themselves, "old-school transsexuals." It really does transsexuals no good to say "we're not like them, they're the baddies" as long as this is going on. This hasn't come out of nowhere. Women haven't been the ones hard at work widening the trans umbrella. We've been told to "enjoy our erasure" by transactivism.

Do read the thread R0wan already linked.

I'd suggest those individuals are not and were never transsexual in the first place, whether they believed themselves to be or not. Or they have simply been brainwashed or bullied by the transgenderists. These people certainly do not speak for transsexuals who believe in the sanctity of female spaces

I think this is a matter to be resolved by transsexuals, rather than women, however Miranda Yardley, who is TS & who has been actively campaigning to protect women's rights & Safeguarding frameworks for sometime has commented:

Miranda Yardley article,
'Transsexual Voices Matter'
POSTED ON 17TH AUGUST 2018
(extract)
"There’s plenty I could say about the group’s initial statement. The claim to be diagnosed with ‘rare acute forms of gender dysphoria’ is just silly because whatever gender dysphoria is, the justification for treatment is that the condition supposedly is chronic, and anyway what we know about male transsexualism points again to this being a chronic condition. There’s a lot of whining about how the identity of ‘transsexual’ is being swept aside by ‘transgender’, which is a fair argument and one I’ve used myself, but as usual it’s what the statement manages NOT to say that gives the game away, and add to that the continual claim to ‘woman’ throughout the statement lets us all see exactly what this is:

It remains to be seen whether this group stand for anything different. They could have specifically identified and condemned the use of ‘TERF’ and the attack on female homosexuality; if they’re that concerned about respecting female culture, spaces and the lives of women, I’d look for an explicit distancing from the use of ‘lesbian’, ‘mother’ and ‘woman’. Unfortunately many of ‘the good trans’ still can’t bring themselves to this more evolved point." (continues)

mirandayardley.com/en/transsexual-voices-matter/

I seem to remember that petition for the Tavistock inquiry was put together by some transsexuals who are backed by Transgender Trend. Hardly the work of people who wish to remove safeguarding. Most ironic then that trans activists reported them to Twitter!

Its interesting that its framed as Transgendertrend "backing" the creators of the petition.
TransgenderTrend & many others have been working for years to highlight safeguarding issues.
Many adults of both sexes are deeply concerned & have been involved.

Its interesting how often when a letter/petition/article is written there is a call/attempt for women here to affirm & validate the TS involved.