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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children

721 replies

EweSurname · 07/04/2019 22:56

Looks like it's dropped!

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children
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WeRiseUp · 09/04/2019 13:47

And delayed puberty Hmm

DodoPatrol · 09/04/2019 13:50

I don't get why asking for better evidence for child treatment protocols would be 'sexist', MTGOW.

Women ARE speaking up about this, so I think you mean it's about time men did?

R0wantrees · 09/04/2019 13:57

Couldn’t have been clearer that she hadn’t read the actual articles. I don’t get that level of wilful blindness. Which bit about wanting gender confused children to have access to evidence based medicine is it that is so transphobic?

the combination of confirmation bias and that Times articles are behind the paywall is an issue.

The articles report Safeguarding & Duty of Care concerns of professionals about how children are treated.

The article by Prof Carl Heneghan alone should be serious cause for thought. He is lead at Oxford Evidence Based Medicine & has written the article.

Popchyk · 09/04/2019 13:57

He clearly hasn't read the articles.

twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1115549667654291457

"UK Times newspaper published four transphobic articles calling gender reassignment surgery an 'experiment'. This neglects the hostility & misunderstanding that trans people suffer. It is misleading & fuels prejudice".

The articles didn't even mention surgery, you plank.

It was about clinicians' concerns about vulnerable children being medicated in order to trans away the gay, among other things.

Turns out Tatchell is all for gay conversion therapy for children.

FloralBunting · 09/04/2019 14:00

Tatchell seems impervious to criticism these days. I guess he used up his lifetime quota of defending the oppressed and is now stuck with arguing for all the things he used to stand against, like gay conversion therapy.

(Although obviously, the brave freedom fighter thing is just part of his false legend, he's been a nonce-defender for a long time)

Lamaha · 09/04/2019 14:07

...that Times articles are behind the paywall is an issue.
This actually is a problem. I have a Times subscription so I keep forgetting that many people will only have read the headlines, and unless they buy the newspaper (which many won't) they won't read the whole story, which is a pity.
The Fair Play for Women Facebook page has the whole text (of all the articles and the editorial) in their comments, and I assume they have it on their Twitter as well, haven't checked. But some people just won't bother; they jump to conclusions to confirm their own bias.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 09/04/2019 14:14

Oh my god, I just looked at a link on Tatchell’s thread... I am not from UK and while I roughly knew what you were all talking about when mentioning PIE I had no idea Harriet Harman and what is now known as Liberty supported it. Ffs. Gross. The fact this group latched itself onto gay rights is so reminiscent of what is happening now. My god, do people never learn?? Harman has never apologised?? Wtf

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/10653944/The-right-to-sleep-with-children-was-one-civil-liberty-that-NCCL-supported.html

RepealTheGRA · 09/04/2019 14:18

My god, do people never learn??

That would be a ‘No’.

I saw Harman defend the TWAW twattery on Twitter it was robustly pointed out to her that as someone whose career had been dogged by her falling for PIE she should know better. Nothing. Completely unable to draw parallels even when it was explained to her in words of one syllable.

It beggars belief.

Anybody not able to see the similarities is either incredibly dubious or incredibly thick. Neither of these should be compatible with holding public office.

buzzbobbly · 09/04/2019 14:19

hehe, I see the poor old Guardian is valiantly trying to launch a defence.

Yesterday was about a "transwoman" - actually clearly self-professed "non-binary" - political candidate in Thailand.

Today it is about a transman film producer (who incidentally dropped her T hormone treatment a few years after starting it because they wanted to start a family with her (presumably?) male partner.

Sidenote: Transman photo is of them wearing a "uterus" costume, because they were doing a piece on menstruation. I thought we had all been schooled that that was biolgically reductive and/or exclusionary etc? That has to be at least work a threat of correctional violence, surely?

R0wantrees · 09/04/2019 14:26

Oh my god, I just looked at a link on Tatchell’s thread... I am not from UK and while I roughly knew what you were all talking about when mentioning PIE I had no idea Harriet Harman and what is now known as Liberty supported it

This BBC article is a good summary.
Its worth noting the key groups which PIE successfully infiltrated referred to in the article Liberty, NUS, young Liberals/ Labour, Campaign for Homosexual Equality, Guardian etc

'How did the pro-paedophile group PIE exist openly for 10 years?'
By Tom de Castella & Tom Heyden
BBC News Magazine
27 February 2014
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26352378

ZebrasAreBras · 09/04/2019 14:30

Some very good responses to Peter Tatchell on the Twitter thread posted by Floral

And lots of them by men - please take note, mgtow101. Men are already quite happy to raise concerns over the safeguarding of children. What with them being parents too...

buzzbobbly · 09/04/2019 14:30

MGTOW is an interesting username for MN.

Given its most prominent use is Men Going Their Own Way - one of the most misogynistic and woman-hating movements out there.

Maybe it's ironic?

ZebrasAreBras · 09/04/2019 14:33

I think a few of the old-style mra's still hang around mumsnet, Buzz

You know, just checking up on what the women are 'screeching' about today.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 09/04/2019 14:43

Mgtow101 is indeed an interesting choice of username, buzzbobbly. It always tickles me how many of these "men going their own way" spend lots of time commenting on what women are doing and saying.

ErrolTheDragon · 09/04/2019 15:12

If you come across anyone on twitter who clearly hasn't read the articles before randomly deciding what they must contain ('investigativejournalismphobia seems rife....), then you could try just c&p'ing the sharetoken links off this thread, or point them to the DM online piece which reports on the Times piece.

NewWomensMovement · 09/04/2019 15:21

"men going their own way" spend lots of time commenting on what women are doing and saying.

Don't they just.

R0wantrees · 09/04/2019 15:23

There's also the BMJ paper by Prof Henghan which is the basis for his Times article.
Its open access:

blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2019/02/25/gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-evidence-review/

CallMeWoman · 09/04/2019 16:09

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post Talk Guidelines.

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 09/04/2019 16:55

Oh look, Peter Tatchell is in favour of kids not going through a proper puberty.....

SoftDay · 09/04/2019 17:13

TRA twitter is so illuminating. We have reams of the anime-avatered fulminating about the Times articles. A quick click into many of these profiles and it's a world of furry/anime/autogynephilia/other fetishes on proud display. These are some of the people positioning themselves as guardians of children
Our favourite knitting friend, meanwhile, responds to these damning articles on the damage being done to vulnerable children by, apparently apropos of nothing, pontificating on Faeself's favourite subject of how extreme porn is harmless really, if not actually nutritious and wholesome.
We see lots of male bodied adult trans persons who are self-described lesbians arguing that their "lesbianism" disproves any notion that transing children could ever involve inflicting dreadful, lifelong damage on confused and fragile children who might, if adequately supported, turn out to be simply gay. That's the whole problem right there - these adult activists cannot look beyond their own needs, their own desire for validation, their own paraphilias, their own oppression narrative, to consider the harm that is potentially being done to vulnerable children. In fact, the validation and oppression narrative requires the phenomenon of trans children.

theOtherPamAyres · 09/04/2019 17:17

Where are the Watchdogs?

The Care Quality Commission?
The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence?
The NHS Chief Executive and Board?
The Minister for Health?
The Departments of Education/Children?
The Minister responsible for safeguarding?
The Select Committees?
The Children's Commissioners?
The Children's Charities like Barnados, Action for Children and NSPCC?

And where are the Opposition, who ought to be holding the HM Government's feet to the fire about the scandal and the need for urgent intervention?

It is everyone's and no-one's responsibility, it seems. Will anyone do their job?

theOtherPamAyres · 09/04/2019 18:38

It's so frustrating.

There's been a newstory about the netting of sand martins in Norfolk. Quite rightly, questions are being asked of the Norfolk Council and members of the public are condemning the cruelty. MPs have raised questions in the House .... and are being thanked for their concern and intervention by the public

Children? The issues raised in the Times? Not a word. Not a peep. They couldn't give a flying feck.

boatyardblues · 09/04/2019 18:45

I keep thinking that if this was any other medical specialty, the outcry would be massive - 5 whistleblowing clinicians, an internal report sounding the alarm, evidence-based medicine specialists condemning poor practice. I keep thinking about the paediatric heart scandal at Bristol Royal Infirmary, which got loads of coverage.

Lamaha · 09/04/2019 18:54

@boatyardblues The recent breast cancer screening comes to mind. It was a huge uproar which went on for months.

Lamaha · 09/04/2019 18:54

*screening scandal.

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