Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children

721 replies

EweSurname · 07/04/2019 22:56

Looks like it's dropped!

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children
OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
GerryblewuptheER · 08/04/2019 13:04

I am seriously horrified at Stonewall and their definition of homosexual. I cannot understand any gay or lesbian who is not outraged at the changing of the definition

They probably are. However they have possibly also witnessed the horrific bullying and online attacks on lesbians who dont do "lady dick" Hmm and not forgetting the abuse given to any trans teen who has a wobble , and they just dont want to risk being without a support group.

If I could tell them one thing it would be that they deserve so much better than what they are getting. That no support is better than the emotional.black mail and the threat of being abandoned altogether if they dont follow every thing without question.

Every single one of these forums and groups turns on you the second you slip up or ask one question.

That's not the kind of support these peppe need. Again, who is it who picks up the pieces after.

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 13:09

Slow hand-clap for the geniuses at Stonewall.

October 2018 Stonewall response to nuanced petition (which is still running)

"This week, a petition has been launched directly asking Stonewall to reconsider our work on trans equality.
The petition asks us to acknowledge that there are a range of viewpoints around sex and gender. Of course we know that these differing views exist, and have existed for many years. The petition also asks us to acknowledge that there is a conflict between trans rights and ‘sex based women’s rights’. We do not and will not acknowledge this" (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3384455-Ruth-Hunt-Stonewall-do-not-and-will-not-acknowledge-that-there-is-a-conflict-between-trans-rights-and-sex-based-women-s-rights

recent relevent threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3488261-The-Financial-Juggernaut-that-is-Stonewall

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3514190-Ruth-Hunt-is-leaving-Stonewall

Popchyk · 08/04/2019 13:18

I'll bet Ruth Hunt is thinking that she is getting out just in time.

We have long memories though, Ruth.

And guess what? The new Stonewall CEO will be throwing Ruth right under the bus. It will be a litany of "mistakes were made, naïve leadership at the top, lacked leadership skills, lessons have been learned since the departure of our previous leader'.

And so the world turns.

stillathing · 08/04/2019 13:24

This is good. I need something to take to my child's school that explains that it's precisely because my child might be gay that I'm worried about the impact of mermaids etc.

I know there's some amazing people speaking out like Johnny Best but I wish the rest of the gay community would wake up to what is being done to gay children.

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 13:25

Every single one of these forums and groups turns on you the second you slip up or ask one question.

That's not the kind of support these peppe need.

See comments by young women who describe their exeriences within the LGBT+ community having 'detransitioned.

At the 'We Need To Talk' Washington meeting a young woman who is a lesbian spoke eloquently & powerfully about her and other young lesbians' treatment (transcribed by PencilsinSpace)
(extract)
"I know this transman, a trans identified female, and they got a double mastectomy at 15 and had been on testosterone since they were 13 or 14, and you're not allowed to raise questions about that because then you're evil and sort of being in this circle where any woman who's gender non-conforming is obviously not a woman. It's very easy to gain that idea. I think that even older people theorising about it can understand conceptually, but being in that space it's a very difficult mindset to get out of. And I've been really lucky, I have some radical feminist friends who've been really nice but since I discovered and understood radical feminism - I'm skipping around this story but it's fine.

I recently lost my entire friend group. So I go to college but I lost all of my friends because they were like, actually, you having three separate opinions from me means that you're unsafe and are equivalent to a nazi. Because obviously, saying that lesbians can have sexual boundaries is the same thing as kill all Jewish people. You know, it's obviously the same statement. I don't know how anyone can see it differently.

But - OK, going front to back - being part of that environment and being a lesbian and having it be not a socially acceptable thing in these spaces that are intended for same sex attracted people - it's just extremely damaging and you start to think, well, maybe I'm not a woman. I don't feel like a woman, I don't look like the women around me, you know. And being a woman is deeply traumatising.

I think almost every trans female that I know, especially detransitioned women like myself - I got a double mastectomy - we are all - a lot of us are autistic and don't fit into gender roles and don't really understand it and we're absolutely preyed upon in that sort of way. And almost all of us have experienced sexual trauma and just being a woman and experiencing things like that makes you disgusted with your body and not want men to think about you, not want to be - it's just so profoundly traumatising. (continues)

I just feel so bad about my peers because it's very hard to get out of. It's such a cult-like mindset because if you talk to anyone different you are going to be excommunicated, right? You're just not going to be allowed to interact with people. I mean it's like my friends who just dropped me, you know, it's really difficult - I don't know if I'm over my time limit - I just, I don't know, when people were saying about how it's really hard as a young person to not be accepted by your peers - it is terrifying, it is so ... scary, but it's really an important thing because so many women I know, every lesbian I know in my day to day life who's not a complete normie who's never been online, has identified as trans, even if they haven't transitioned, has previously identified as trans.

Because it's just - being a lesbian sucks, guys.

I mean it's wonderful once you're able to accept it and interact with other women, but this is a terrifying societal position to occupy and I'm completely proud and out now but it's just a really scary thing because these people who are supposed to be supporting you would rather you be anything but a lesbian." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3507109-Pique-Resilience-Project-young-detransitioned-women-sharing-their-personal-stories

Popchyk · 08/04/2019 13:28

Stonewall speaks.

twitter.com/stonewalluk/status/1115217376818147328

"There's been some damaging and misleading stories in the media today about trans people. More than ever we need you to stand up as a #TransAlly. Read our Q&A to find out the truth about trans people and how you can #ComeOutForTransEquality"

They don't provide any evidence for their 'damaging and misleading claim'. Of course. And don't specify exactly what it is they are objecting to.

ErrolTheDragon · 08/04/2019 13:36

The stories in the paper this morning aren't Primarily about trans people though. They're not attacking the poor kids involved, not in the slightest.

The stories are about the fact that medical professionals are whistleblowing in inadequate and inappropriate treatment of gender-confused kids, especially girls. Some may genuinely have dysphoria but many almost certainly are lesbians or merely gender nonconforming.

Why isn't stonewall decrying homophobia against young lesbians in schools? Why isn't it helping them to be themselves?

TimeLady · 08/04/2019 13:38

Debbie Hayton in support of The Times on Twitter

twitter.com/dkgf01/status/1115030773474656256

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 13:40

And guess what? The new Stonewall CEO will be throwing Ruth right under the bus. It will be a litany of "mistakes were made, naïve leadership at the top, lacked leadership skills, lessons have been learned since the departure of our previous leader'.

The chair of Stonewall Trustees Jan Gooding, has recently been awarded The Drum Marketing Awards' lifetime achievement award for her "devotion to diversity in the industry"
(extract)
"Gooding is also the chair of the board of trustees at Stonewall, a charity for LGBT equality and a role she has been in since April 2014, which was meant to end in April this year but has been extended until autumn 2020."

www.thedrum.com/news/2019/02/01/diversity-champion-jan-gooding-receive-the-drum-marketing-awards-lifetime

www.stonewall.org.uk/our-work/blog/2018-review-view-our-chair

Jan Gooding interviewed in 2014 Telegraph article:
"Jan Gooding: my fight against gay prejudice starts now"

(extract)
“So I do notice myself hesitating to say I am gay at certain occasions in the City. If I’m in a room that is very male, already as a woman I feel uncomfortable, but it is at least clear that I am a woman. I get additionally discomforted in those circumstances about being a lesbian. I still do hesitate, though I am getting braver. Now being chair of Stonewall, it means I simply cannot allow myself not to get it out there.”

While her natural setting is not as a controversialist, in the mould of activist Peter Tatchell (for whom, she emphasises, she has great respect), she is none the less, in her own words, “on a mission”, even if it requires actions she would instinctively avoid. “I have to do everything I can to make [being gay or lesbian] unremarkable, but to do that I have to remark on it and be as visible as I can.”

The “visibility” has not come easily to Gooding, who, until 2008, had been living happily in Balham, south London, as a wife and mother of two boys. “I had been married for 16 years to a very wonderful man, with whom I had my two sons,” she explains. “I was not someone who was gay and leading a straight life. I married in good faith. That is very important to me. I was a straight woman, as far as I was aware. And then, astonishingly, I fell in love with a woman.” (continues)
www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/10802102/Jan-Gooding-my-fight-against-gay-prejudice-starts-now.html

JackyHolyoake · 08/04/2019 13:44

Dearie me, it looks like Stonewall has not read those four articles or whoever is tweeting today would know that the articles are not about transitioners personally but about the treatment pathway to which they are directed.

Long gone are the days when Stonewall was an organisation to be respected.

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 13:46

"There's been some damaging and misleading stories in the media today about trans people. More than ever we need you to stand up as a #TransAlly. Read our Q&A to find out the truth about trans people and how you can #ComeOutForTransEquality"

The aticles in The Times are about serious Safeguarding & Duty of Care concerns about how children are being treated &raised by medical profesionals.

Paula Radcliffe has been interviewed about the unfairness & consequences for women's sports when males take qualifying places in the Boston Women's marathon:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/07/paul-radcliffe-transgender-runners-identify-female-get-unfair/

The articles are about potential damage; to children's well being & health and to girls & women's sports.

OvaHere · 08/04/2019 13:47

No Stonewall, the articles are not about trans people they are about children, some as young as three years old. Interesting how they can't bring themselves to use the word children.

Even if they want to continue their dogged affirmation approach can they not also call out the worrying amount of homophobia evidenced by these clinicians? Or does being trans affirming now mean ignoring homophobia?

I guess we know the answer to that.

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 13:51

from the Stonewall article linked & signposted in the tweet.
'The Truth About Trans'
(extract)

"How do you know you’re trans?
Many people know they’re trans from a young age. Some trans people might not have the language or understanding of what it means to be trans until later in life. But it is always something innate and absolutely core to your sense of self. It’s not something that’s a fad, a 'lifestyle choice' or something that comes and goes.

It is an essential part of who you are that can’t be changed. If you aren’t recognised as being the gender you know you are, it’s extremely damaging" (continues)

www.stonewall.org.uk/truth-about-trans#know-trans

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children
juneau · 08/04/2019 13:54

There's an article condemning gender neutral loos in the DM today as well: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6897005/DOMINIC-LAWSON-inconvenient-truth-unisex-loos-women-loathe-them.html

The backlash has truly begun!

VickyEadie · 08/04/2019 13:57

I was simultaneously astonished and unsurprised to see people like Webberly tweeting instructions to people not to read the Time article.

Why? What's going to happen if they do? That we have what is quite clearly a cult mentality in the trans lobby - telling people not to read articles in legitimate news media - is a mark of how dangerous they are.

HumberElla · 08/04/2019 13:59

There's been some damaging and misleading stories in the media today about trans people

Could Stonewall, or indeed anyone, point us to where these are published please?

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 14:00

Or explain why they think an expert in evidence based medicine is speaking up and saying there is a lack of evidence based medicine here?

Why is that misleading?

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 14:01

From Daily Mail link above about mixed sex toilets:
(extract)
"But in avoiding unpleasantness or distress for a small group (the less than 1 per cent of the population defined as transgender), a much larger number of people — women as a whole, so 52 per cent of the population — are being discomfited, or even made to feel threatened.

That feeling of threat is not delusional. Six months ago, a Freedom of Information request uncovered the fact that the great majority of sexual assaults at public swimming pools are taking place in unisex changing rooms.

In 2017-2018, of the 134 such complaints, 120 of the incidents took place in gender-neutral changing rooms and just 14 took place in single-sex changing areas." (continues)

So not a 'damaging, misleading story about trans people' but an article about the impact on girls & women of mixed sex toilets?

HandsOffMyRights · 08/04/2019 14:03

NRTFT but Gendered Intelligence's take
Despite the mental health crisis faced by young trans people and children, the lack of support in schools, no legal gender recognition and a rise in hate crime, this is the contrived story that the Times keeps pushing. The press doesn't care about young people all.

twitter.com/Genderintell/status/1115156806395990016?s=20

JessicaWakefieldSV · 08/04/2019 14:05

The stories in the paper this morning aren't Primarily about trans people though. They're not attacking the poor kids involved, not in the slightest.

Exactly!

R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 14:11

Every trans rights organisation, charity and/or individual that dismisses out of hand serious Safeguarding & Duty of Care concerns about the treatment of children whistleblown by medical professionals is demonstrating their failure to understand and respect Safeguarding & Child protection frameworks

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children
EmpressLesbianInChair · 08/04/2019 14:22

Or does being trans affirming now mean ignoring homophobia? I guess we know the answer to that.

Stonewall have been explicitly homophobic for a long while now, ever since they sold out to the trans lobby in order to keep the funding going. It must have become evident very quickly that they couldn't support the LGB and the T, and the T were the ones with the money. So there we are.

ZebrasAreBras · 08/04/2019 14:24

That we have what is quite clearly a cult mentality in the trans lobby - telling people not to read articles in legitimate news media - is a mark of how dangerous they are.

Indeed. Plus, don't forget Edward Lord writing to the Times to try and suppress Andrew Gilligan's reporting.

And Trans Media Watch pulling newspaper editors (incl. The Times & Telegraph) in front of the Parliamentary Home Affairs Committee on a hate speech Inquiry last year.

Trans Media Watch, TEFL, Stonewall, Mermaids, GI - it's all a multi-faceted approach to gain traction in every corner of society - schools, police, cps, NHS, civil service - and silence all dissent.

dragoning · 08/04/2019 14:25

There's been some damaging and misleading stories in the media today about trans people

About how trans people are being damaged and misled.

RedToothBrush · 08/04/2019 14:28

How did the Stasi operate?