Pride In London - A Pride Without Hate

[severnbore]

prideinlondon.org/news/2019/3/31/a-pride-without-hate

'Susie Green, CEO of Mermaids said: To back out of Pride in London when they are showing that they are addressing these issues only bows to hate. Mermaids is working with our partners and Pride in London. We will only take part if we are satisfied that concerns have been addressed and that security and safety, especially of vulnerable people, particularly children, is paramount. Pride in London have apologised for the mistakes made last year, and the distress caused. They are committed to standing up to intimidation and oppression. So are Mermaids, alongside our partners Stonewall, UK Black Pride and We Level Up”. '

The devastation wreaked by those 8 lesbians! Central London is still a wasteland...

Why does SG get to dictate conditions in this way?

The crushing experience of living in a heteronormative world

Susie Green said We will only take part if we are satisfied that concerns have been addressed and that security and safety, especially of vulnerable people, particularly children, is paramount.

I have to question whether Pride is a suitable environment for children in the first place with the growing number of fetishists using it as an opportunity to display their kinks to the world. I wouldn't want my DC around that.

I remember Mermaids were bowled over with that fetish calendar someone made to raise funds for them though.

It's all very odd for a children's charity.

I suppose at least Mermaids won't have to take their own puppies.

I suppose at least Mermaids won't have to take their own puppies.

Skyzalimit why is heteronormative an issue for transgender people, if they are not LGB themselves?

There's nothing about transgenderism that is necessarily incompatible with lifelong heterosexuality. Transgendered people can be gay, straight, lesbian, bisexual or any other form of sexuality, just as left-handed people can be. And yet we lefties aren't campaigning for LLGB inclusion!

AssassinatedBeauty: I read it as part of the push towards dividing the world up into "men" and "non-men", "trans" and "non-trans", "queer" and "non-queer", etc.

Heteronormativity affects trans people whatever sexual orientation they have.
Heteronormativity isn't just about normative models of sexual, but normative models of sex and gender. It's heteronormativity that pressurises girls to stop playing football in secondary school, boys to refrain from showing an interest in reading, women to have children and men to engage in sexist banter. Any deviation is punished for being gender non-normative. So heteronormativity will affect a trans person who because they will have been perceived at some time as gender non-normative.

Is that you, Sally?

No, that's misogyny and sexism, and patriarchy.

It's heteronormativity that pressurises girls to stop playing football in secondary school, boys to refrain from showing an interest in reading, women to have children and men to engage in sexist banter.

And it’s Gendered Intelligence & Mermaids who then tell kids that if their interests / tastes / personalities don’t match gender stereotypes they might be in the wrong body.

Radfems seem to be the only ones wanting to abolish gender altogether.

Any deviation is punished for being gender non-normative.

Of course, because what you describe as 'heteronormativity' is what most of us here call 'gender'. It affects all of us whatever our sexual orientation.

No, that's misogyny and sexism, and patriarchy.

Completely agree, Assassinated.

Heteronormativity isn't just about normative models of sexual, but normative models of sex and gender. It's heteronormativity that pressurises girls to stop playing football in secondary school, boys to refrain from showing an interest in reading, women to have children and men to engage in sexist banter. Any deviation is punished for being gender non-normative.

When you say punished, do you mean lesbian young women coerced into thinking they are actually men if they don't conform? Or called bigots for not being oriented towards those who have, or have ever had penises, however those people 'identify'? Or being told they aren't welcome at 'inclusive' events because of their rejection of the bepenised?
Or kids set on a path to medicalization and surgery if they don't conform to those gender stereotypes we all stand against here?

Or did you have something else in mind?

I agree with you too, Assassinated

But that doesn't change my view

I'm confused Skyzalimit.

If you agree that what you call 'heteronormativity' is what Assassinated calls 'misogyny and sexism, and patriarchy' then we all have 'the crushing experience of living in a heteronormative world' regardless of our sexual orientation.

So this can't be correct:

And if you're not LGBorT you don't really have the experience or understanding you need to comment on this issue.

'Heteronormativity' sounds like it should be a really useful word for discussing lesbophobia and homophobia and the effects of these on LGB people's lives, but it isn't.

It's not a useful word if it also encompasses the whole of what feminists call 'gender' and at the same time we are expected to celebrate people's 'gender identities'. How does that make sense?

We all experience heteronormativity.

Pride isn't for straight people or those who aren't trans.

...so what feminists and lesbians and trans people have in common is that we all have an awareness of how heteronormativity affects us.

If everybody experiences heteronormativity, then why include trans people experiencing it as the reason for trans to be included under the LGB umbrella? Your logic would suggest we should all be at Pride, Skyzalimit.

So feminists should be included as LGBT and F?

It's the illogical nonsense posted by people like Sky that converted me from a vehement trans ally to a gender critical aware feminist.
Thank you Sky for your help in getting readers to understand.

I think the cotton ceiling is the epitome of heteronormativity. But goddess forbid we notice, eh?

There are many male people who identify as transgender who are the embodiment of heteronormative.

They are opposite sex attracted (therefore heterosexual) and their view of what women actually should be is steeped in regressive stereotypes. They personally won't consider sexual partners who have penises, but they insist that women who are lesbians must do so. Because the heteronormative role of women in society is to be sexually available to men, even if those men identify as women. Particularly if those men identify as women.

These male people are not crushed by the heteronormative world; they are rigorously enforcing it. While simultaneously claiming to be oppressed by it.

But they're male, you say? Can't have it both ways.

No, this doesn't make sense.

What you call 'heteronormativity' is what I call 'gender'. You almost get this when you say Any deviation is punished for being gender non-normative.

Yet trans, we are told, is all about your 'gender identity'.

How can there be any 'common awareness' when these terms are being used in such a contradictory and slippery fashion?

How can we be against 'gender' AKA 'heteronormativity' while simultaneously celebrating 'gender identity'?

And why does any of this mean that lesbians have to contemplate penis?