BBC "top story": How I came out as non-binary to my parents

[ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASavings]

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4zw5Wg0F6czNqqQqPFmQzft/how-i-came-out-as-non-binary-to-my-parents

*"I had to think about how I was going to talk to mum and dad about it. I thought about how much I would have to explain, how many questions I still had unanswered about myself, and how dumb I was going to sound.

As luck would have it, almost at that very moment I got a podcast about my gender identity called NB commissioned. So I made all my insecurities and all my questions into a series. "*

Uh huh.

I do hope Caitlin will have another podcast commissioned in 10 years time when they're too old to look cool in silly glasses. After they've had a few kids and suddenly become invisible to society, and all their free time is spent being the default parent while their uber-woke partner continues to insist they're too special to stay home and help with the baby, and everyone is endlessly asking how they balance career and motherhood, judging them for staying home or using childcare, judging how they feed their baby, dismissing their opinions as a "silly mum". Or maybe they won't have children and will face all the discrimination and prejudice that comes with choosing not to use their female reproductive organs. And I do hope they'll use that podcast to update us all on just how silly the whole concept of sexual dimorphism turned out to be.

I'm old now, aren't I? This is what it feels like to be old.

Yes to most of your post, ZenNudist, and in particular this - I ultimately wonder how normal impulses like not feeling particularly male or female can be given a silly lable and engender a load of hoopla.

Most people posting here reject the strictures of Gender. Non binary is a trendy way of sidestepping some of it while making some pretty big, and often offensive assumptions about everyone else. There's nothing wrong with not being at all happy with specific stereotypes. There's also nothing particularly unusual about it.

Hi BillyBad hope baba feels better soon, I've one down with a cold too.
You asked a poster to explain how her body feels wrong, well nearly every woman I know has had some issues with their bodies, we are getting better as we get older and wiser,but this is not at all uncommon.
How wrong does a person's body have to feel before they decide they are non binary?
I'm non binary as far as the definition goes and also gender free. However, so is nearly everyone else on the planet going by the definition.

From Dictionary.com
Nonbinary gender is an umbrella term to describe any gender identity that does not fit into the gender binary of male and female.

the gender binary of male and female

This is the kind of stuff that is the bedrock of the gender identity ideology. No wonder it's hopelessly muddled.

Nonbinary gender is an umbrella term to describe any gender identity that does not fit into the gender binary of male and female.

We need a definition of 'gender identity' in order to make sense of that. But it won't make sense even then because male and female are sexes not genders.

I have no intention of divulging my personal insecurities about my body on here

Me neither and yet it seems that that's what someone would have to do to explain non-binary to you. Women's spaces are relevant because if you're non-binary you might not feel welcome there. You're only alowed in if you have a vagina, what if you feel like you shouldn't or even don't have one?

Are you saying there's loads of women on here who who feel terrible about the fact that they have boobs to the point that they would consider having them removed?

while still managing to fit into a very specific look that lots of non binary identified members of your sex maintain

In that case, I shall assume that you probably are either extremely camp or wearing a flannel shirt and Dr. Martens like most people of your sexuality do. As for coming out, this could be something that you've worried about for ages and telling people should help ease the burden. Unfortunately you are probably just opening yourself up to ridicule and nastiness, so yes, it could be a big deal.

I would like to know what a 'binary' woman is expected to look like, to feel, and how she should behave.

If there are no boundaries or stereotypes for binary women, surely being non-binary is not a thing either...

ZenNudist: Then I got pregnant and I found new ways to feel wrong about my body sagging, bulging and flagging in ways I never knew it would.

Interesting you should say that. Pre-pregnancy I felt wrong about my body in a non-binary kind of way. Post-pregancy I feel so much happier and more normal about being a woman despite the fact that I now feel bad about fat and stretch-marks. I would, however, take feeling unattractive over feeling non-binary. It's much less uncomfortable. (After I told FloralBunting I wouldn't talk about body insecurities )

Blueblueyellow: hope baba feels better soon, I've one down with a cold too.

Thanks a lot, she's dropped off to sleep now. Hope yours recovers soon too

In that case, I shall assume that you probably are either extremely camp or wearing a flannel shirt and Dr. Martens like most people of your sexuality do.

Do you always make crass assumptions about people's appearance based on their sexuality? You're coming across as very narrow minded. Have you never considered that most people don't fit comfortably in little labelled gender boxes?

Pre-pregnancy I felt wrong about my body in a non-binary kind of way.

How is this different from other body dysmorphic issues?

Women's spaces are relevant because if you're non-binary you might not feel welcome there. You're only alowed in if you have a vagina, what if you feel like you shouldn't or even don't have one?

Why would you be unwelcome in a space for the female sex if you were, in fact, the female sex? Why would it matter if you felt like you should have a vagina? If you didn't have a vagina, you wouldn't belong in a female sex space, so that would be fairly straightforward.

And yes, many women have significant issues with their bodies to the point of wanting surgery. I'm astonished you appear to think that's unheard of.

I'm going to do you a favour and ignore the remark about 'people of your sexuality' because you clearly equate rejecting stereotypes and fearing ridicule for it with the fear of complete family rejection and possible violence, and I really don't know what to say to that.

Look, no one is saying she can't present to the world as she wishes. But if she's going to appropriate the struggles and language of an actually oppressed minority, and reinforce gender for everyone else while claiming to be apart from it, she's going to get criticized.

I would like to know what a 'binary' woman is expected to look like, to feel, and how she should behave.

Interesting.

Do you always make crass assumptions about people's appearance based on their sexuality? You're coming across as very narrow minded. Have you never considered that most people don't fit comfortably in little labelled gender boxes?

To be fair, OldCrone, I think this was in response to my comment about Caitlin dressing a way that is pretty common to.young women who ID as Non binary, which was an idea referenced upthread in conversation with ZenNudist.

At least, I hope so.

I would like to know what a 'binary' woman is expected to look like, to feel, and how she should behave.

I'd like to know this, too.

Oh, and re: the body insecurities comment, BillyBadBreaks, I wasn't being snarky (hard to tell, I know), it's just the boards have been particularly hostile of late and I am wary because I do often overshare.

OldCrone I don't make crass assumptions about people's appearance based on their sexuality but was pointing out that FloralBunting did about non-binary people. I'm not talking about not quite being comfortable with gender boxes but feeling like your body is fundamentally wrong. Saying every woman is non-binary is a bit like saying every woman is bisexual.

Saying every woman is non-binary is a bit like saying every woman is bisexual.

It really isn't. NB is not fitting into the sex stereotypes for either sex as understood by our culture. That is a fuckton of people.

Who you are sexually attracted to is nothing like that at all.

Thanks FloralBunting it was in reference to your non-binary dress sense comment. I feel similar to you about sharing insecurities in this thread too.

But for other people talking about body issues, I mean feelings specific to sex characteristics rather than attractiveness. Sometimes I feel bad that my boobs aren't good enough. Sometimes I feel bad that I have them at all. The second feeling is worse (for me, obviously I don't know how bad you lot feel about your bodies). It's a different kind of feeling. But I have to go to bed now!

Saying every woman is non-binary is a bit like saying every woman is bisexual.

Some people do believe that everyone is bisexual, so that might be a valid opinion to hold.

I had assumed, like many others here, that non-binary people just didn't like the stereotypes, not that they felt they needed to modify their bodies. Is non-binary, which includes body modifications only a female thing? Are there male non-binaries? Do they modify their bodies?

It sounds to me as if she has just come out as gay, but these days it somehow seems easier, trendier and more palatable to call yourself trans or non-binary. The difference, and the problem, is though, that being gay doesn't catapult you towards a path of potential medical intervention and utter confusion.

I don't understand what non-binary means and none of the explanations here make sense to me.

Billy Does a non binary person have to be dysphoric?

Are there male non-binaries? Do they modify their bodies?

Jess was a 'non-binary trans-woman' and that seemed to involve unpleasant coloured lipstick. Nothing modified, according to the photo blog.

*Dear god.

My 16yo dd came out to us as non-binary a few months ago.

That's OK. We love you any way you are.
Yes, we'll try to use the name you prefer, but we'll probably slip up from time to time.
No, I won't use those pronouns, because pronouns relate to biological sex and not self-perception.
I love you.

Then for a couple of months we used the name she wanted and avoided saying girl, daughter, sister, etc - with occasional slip-ups, and only when taking directly to her.

And life goes on the way it was.*

Except now she probably expects that the world will revolve around validating her feelings about herself and her 'identity'. Isn't that just nurturing a narcissistic sense of self, though?

If she had just come out as a lesbian that would be far easier and more simple, and she could just carry on being your daughter and nobody would have to pussyfoot around pronouns.

Gender identity seems to have become a substitute for feelings around sexuality and sexual orientation - but at the cost of natal women's boundaries and spaces.

I know you're off, BillyBad, but I think thats a fair question to ponder there - its often pointed out that you dont need to be dysphoric to be trans, so I would think it unlikely that you do to be NB, which as I understand it is a subset of trans.

Disliking your body isn't the same as feeling unattractive, I agree. But it doesn't change your sex designation, it doesn't make you a separate class of person, and if it means you wish to harm your body with medical and surgical intervention, it really means you have some deep seated issues to explore through some kind of counselling.