BBC "top story": How I came out as non-binary to my parents

[ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASavings]

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/4zw5Wg0F6czNqqQqPFmQzft/how-i-came-out-as-non-binary-to-my-parents

*"I had to think about how I was going to talk to mum and dad about it. I thought about how much I would have to explain, how many questions I still had unanswered about myself, and how dumb I was going to sound.

As luck would have it, almost at that very moment I got a podcast about my gender identity called NB commissioned. So I made all my insecurities and all my questions into a series. "*

Uh huh.

I do hope Caitlin will have another podcast commissioned in 10 years time when they're too old to look cool in silly glasses. After they've had a few kids and suddenly become invisible to society, and all their free time is spent being the default parent while their uber-woke partner continues to insist they're too special to stay home and help with the baby, and everyone is endlessly asking how they balance career and motherhood, judging them for staying home or using childcare, judging how they feed their baby, dismissing their opinions as a "silly mum". Or maybe they won't have children and will face all the discrimination and prejudice that comes with choosing not to use their female reproductive organs. And I do hope they'll use that podcast to update us all on just how silly the whole concept of sexual dimorphism turned out to be.

I'm old now, aren't I? This is what it feels like to be old.

Everyone is falling over themselves to be special, huh? Perhaps rather than focussing on 'being someone' perhaps you can do something, Caitlin? How utterly tiresome and narcissistic.

I too think the appropriation of the term "coming out" is massively offensive.

I'm not gay, but I have people close to me who really struggled with coming out and with genuine fears of being ostracised by their whole family, losing jobs, homes, etc. And of course older gay people with fears that they would be prosecuted.

Essentially saying "look at me, I don't fit sex stereotypes" (well, duh) is not a trauma, ffs. Using that term for what feminists have been saying for the last 50 years is utterly pathetic.

Not only are they very skilled navel gazers, this person has a lot of money to waste. Parents living in Australia, jetting back and forth every year? Do they get surgery done on the NHS, in a country where so many are living homeless or on foodbanks while working for a living?

BillyBadBreaks it seems very much like "coming out" as hetrosexual or as having blond hair or liking classical/ rock / insert fairly mainstream music type.

As in it seems to be making a big drama about being ordinary.

FloralBunting that is disturbing and suggests deep-seated avoidance of whatever the source of hatred of the breasts was - abuse or something else traumatic?

blueskiesovertheforest

That's one of the things we've been talking about on here for ages. It's one of the significant reasons why some of the regulars here have been pressing the issue of safeguarding so persistently.

FloralBunting I'm surprised to hear it's part of the "non binary" identification. It seems more obvious when a girl decides she's a boy..

Non binary sounds like simply not accepting the social stereotypes. Evidently not ...

Urgh. What a load of navel gazing nonsense. What is the BBCs agenda at the moment. Every day there are these boring nothing stories about dull unimportant stuff. So she doesn't like "girly" stuff. Yawn. Whatever.

Non binary sounds like simply not accepting the social stereotypes. Evidently not...

If you can bear to sit through half an hour of cutesy YouTube vids with fairy lights in the background, the aforementioned Ash Hardell is actually a very useful source of information for a lot of what variously self-labelled individuals consider about what is important to their identities.

Non binary sounds like simply not accepting the social stereotypes. Evidently not ...

There seem to be two flavours of non-binary, one seems just like any gender non-conforming person, and the other seems to require hormones and surgery (to transition to what?)

I was hoping that BillyBadBreaks would come back and enlighten us.

How very cliche that the Beeb has got Caitlin channelling Sue Perkins (they look good) and the other person dressed like a dogs breakfast.

Non-binary female bodied people always dress like men. Ive not come across any non binary men (in the public eye). What do they usually do ? Surely raiding the dressing up box is more in the realms of trans?

I too think coming out as non- binary is a non-thing. Apparently the main affect is on pronouns and name (shouldn't Caitlin become Cantarus or similar ungendered 'name'?).

Caitlin looks like me. Does that mean I'm a cliche channelling Sue Perkins?

Evening all,

Just a reminder to keep debate civil please, and within our guidelines. Anything that you feel we should look at do please hit the report button.

Floral I like Sue Perkins, its not meant to be an insult ... Caitlin is also prettier, well 'they' are younger anyway...

Its a masculine style but still recognisably female. Im not slagging it off!

BUT still a cliche that in order to represent non binary then this means women dress in a manly way and the man dresses well im not sure what he/they/shay is dressed as.... widow twanky? (Mean, sorry).

I've been saying for ages that I am non binary. I didn't come out to my patents though. Was I supposed to?

ZenNudist, ne worries, I was joking about being offended (did the dramatic swoon not give it away? )

And I agree with you, btw.

Blueskies - testosterone (not too much, just a tweak!) and a double mastectomy, followed in a few years by sterilisation.

www.genderconfirmation.com/introduction-to-top-surgery/

I know a very young woman who identifies as non-binary, has severe co-morbid mental health problems, yet still found a surgeon (privately here in the U.K.) willing to take them off.

Not a form of self - harm at all then.

I was hoping that BillyBadBreaks would come back and enlighten us.

Woah, give me a chance! I've been trying to eat my tea whilst looking after a poorly baby. There is a dysphoria element for a lot of non-binary people. Imagine feeling like your body was wrong but there may be no "right" for you to aim for. Even if your "right" is achievable by hormones or surgery you face the choice of doing nothing and feeling uncomfortable in your own skin or doing something about it and facing the possibility of being treated like an outcast.

For those who don't want men in your women's spaces, what if you felt you didn't fit there yourself but couldn't go to the men's either? Would you not look for a place where you do fit?

Well, what gives you the impression that women posting here couldn't imagine feeling their body was wrong?

And what does a non binary identity have to do with the male and female single sex provision we have for specific reasons? What does it actually affect at all? How is it so significantly different from the normal experiences of people every day that you would need to 'come out' to your parents about it?

FloralBunting Please explain how your body feels wrong.

Single sex spaces was just an example to try and help people imagine how it might feel to be non-binary. I guess the big difference is that it affects people so much that they feel the need to talk about it. Similar to people saying that everyone has autistic traits, it might affect you a bit but it affects someone else a lot.

If someone came online worried about going to a baby scan would people say to them "that happens to loads of folk, stop trying to be special"? I imagine (and hope) that they'd realise this person just wanted to speak to their fellow humans about something that was worrying them. I still think the phrase "come out" is fine to use. What does someone being gay actually affect at all? To me absolutely nothing, to them, probably a whole lot.

Imagine feeling like your body was wrong but there may be no "right" for you to aim for. Even if your "right" is achievable by hormones or surgery you face the choice of doing nothing and feeling uncomfortable in your own skin or doing something about it and facing the possibility of being treated like an outcast.

This really doesn't explain what non binary is at all. Many of us have felt our bodies were 'wrong' in some way at some point in our lives. And Caitlin just seems to want to identify as non-binary - I didn't see anything in that piece about body issues.

How is non-binary different from just thinking gender is a load of bollocks and we should all just be free to live our lives as we wish, regardless of our sex?

I have no intention of divulging my personal insecurities about my body on here, but I, and a number of others have posted to threads on MN before about such things. It is not remotely uncommon to feel that your body is not quite right. I've referenced on this thread a young person who IDs as Non binary so I'm well aware of the rationale behind the dysphoria described, and its never struck me as any different to the massive body issues I have heard women discussing forever. Except perhaps that it gives a green light to monstrosities like voluntary mastectomies to resolve it.

I'm going to disagree with you about the significance of coming out. It's a huge deal, and nothing at all like saying you feel that you don't fit into the stereotypes for either sex (while still managing to fit into a very specific look that lots of non binary identified members of your sex maintain). When I came out to my mother, she broke an occasional table over me in her anger.

Still not seeing how single sex spaces was relevant to the topic, tbh. They have nothing to do with gender ID.

I think women might have invented feeling wrong about their bodies. Or maybe that came from living in the patriarchy.

I spent my teen years and early 20s feeling so wrong about my body when I was probably at my physical peak. Maybe im just insecure. Then I got pregnant and I found new ways to feel wrong about my body sagging, bulging and flagging in ways I never knew it would. Now I've got two children and my body bears the marks of that. I can honestly say I don't feel right in my body.

Today I was wearing a dress suit for work because I had a big meeting I just felt uncomfortable in it. Like i physically looked wrong. All the men around we were so at ease in their shirts and trousers. I felt frumpy and a mess.

Possibly to feel right about my body I would need a liposuction, tummy tuck, boob job and butt lift (and maybe a personal stylist!). I'm not rich and I'm very phobic about medical intervention though so I'd never ever go for this even if I had the money. Plus I don't actually want to look like Katie Price. And probably if i did all that id still find fault with myself.

Im still willing to sympathise with the small minority of troubled souls with gender dysphoria btw. I just think maybe we shouldn't be too quick to medicalise and offer surgical intervention for normal human insecurity. And I ultimately wonder how normal impulses like not feeling particularly male or female can be given a silly lable and engender a load of hoopla.