TRAs try to ruin Mumsnet survey

[2019StandingforWomen]

Just seen this one Twitter:

Transactivists are sharing a survey from @MumsnetTowers
(asking for feedback on their message boards), they're encouraging people to identify as users & complain about feminist chat. Mumsnet boards are important to so many women so please show your support

What survey is this does anyone know?

Yes, we know about coercive control. The whole community team (and Mumsnet as an organisation) feel very strongly about it.

And last but not least... the Feminism and Women's Rights board will be closed over my dead body.

Good to hear that out loud.

And last but not least... the Feminism and Women's Rights board will be closed over my dead body.

Excellent response thank you Michael.
I did fill out that survey and noticed it took a lot on trust in what it asked so I’m sure you’ll be treating this survey like any other self selecting, self reporting survey- with a bit of caution.
I wondered if it might complement the responses from the survey if you could have a comparison group where you eg DM’ed a number of registered users of varying long-standingness of registration and send them individual unique links to use, asking them to reply to that same set of survey questions and see what you get back. You might find quite a difference in terms of knowledge of the site and breadth of comments and concerns between those members responses and the other responses to the online survey that just rage on about transphobes and ‘TerfsNet’

Yes, we know about coercive control. The whole community team (and Mumsnet as an organisation) feel very strongly about it

That's good to know, Michael. Thank you for letting us know. But this is not really the specific question you were being asked. Again, I know I bang on about it to the point of boring you to death - but the question is: do you take the principles of coercive control and apply them to the way you moderate the site to ensure that you are not acting as agents of coercive controllers?

As R0 said:

It isn't just about feeling stongly about it, its also about understanding and recognising the common (often hidden) dynamics & patterns.

In this case, it's not even hidden since your community members have pointed it out to you countless times and there are even explicit articles published on the internet about it.

it takes a certain amount of mental strength coupled with thick skin to be on the receiving end of any pile on if you disagree with a majority

It's not mental strength you need at all. It's to show respect and to have a little patience.

There are situations where you need mental strength and a thick skin if you're seen to be disagreeing, RedToothBrush. I found this out a couple of weeks ago when I asked what I thought were very polite questions about an issue I didn't feel I understood. Most people who responded to me did as you suggested and responded calmly, patiently and clearly and helped my understanding. I thanked them for helping me to understand and asked some more questions. Some other people then became quite aggressive and insisted I was saying or implying things which were completely different to my actual meanings - simply for asking questions and admitting my own ignorance.

The whole episode made me angry, and then upset that people thought I was actually thinking the things I was being accused of saying.

It occurred to me that if a new poster had asked some questions because they genuinely wanted information and were subjected to that sort of pile on, it wouldn't help to get them to see your point of view. The patient, calm, clear posters have a much more positive effect. Which is why I always engage politely with people who have a different point of view to me (as long as they're being polite).

isn't just about feeling stongly about it, its also about understanding and recognising the common (often hidden) dynamics & patterns.

Yes, as a former victim of coercive control I'd like you to acknowledge how it works rather than say you feel strongly about it. Appreciate the gesture of support for FWR but reiterate that some people have an agenda which may not always be apparent.

&Who, if anyone, would you most like us to invite to take part in a Mumsnet webchat?*
(we want a load of cool guests - you can tell us who to invite)

An important (not so sure about cool) guest would be Pat Craven who founded The Freedom Programme

background here: freedomprogramme.co.uk/
"Freedom Programme is a domestic violence programme which was created by Pat Craven who holds the copyright (all rights reserved) and evolved from her work with perpetrators of domestic violence. We provide information, not therapy. Click here to read the mission statement

The Programme was primarily designed for women as victims of domestic violence, since research shows that in the vast majority of cases of serious abuse are male on female. However, the programme, when provided as an intensive two day course, is also suitable for men, whether abusive and wishing to change their attitudes and behaviour or whether victims of same sex domestic abuse themselves.

The Freedom Programme examines the roles played by attitudes and beliefs on the actions of abusive men and the responses of victims and survivors. The aim is to help them to make sense of and understand what has happened to them, instead of the whole experience just feeling like a horrible mess. The Freedom Programme also describes in detail how children are affected by being exposed to this kind of abuse and very importantly how their lives are improved when the abuse is removed. "
sample video 'The Bully'
freedomprogramme.co.uk/sample-online/bully1.php

I read the survey to be looking at why many don't use mn.

I know from friends they found it a bit judgy and harsh, re parenting matters.

Another friend with no kids commented mn can 'send you the other way' - I think she meant 'to the right.'

The truth is that it's made me a stronger woman all round and taught me the ability to think critically,

I know from friends they found it a bit judgy and harsh, re parenting matters.

Agreed on that.

That's sort of it's USP against Netmums though, isn't it? Different tones?

I'm glad that there doesn't seem to be a drive across Mumsnet to just get rid of the feminism boards though, thanks Michael.

I'm glad that there doesn't seem to be a drive across Mumsnet to just get rid of the feminism boards though, thanks Michael.

Many of the feminists who posted on this board for a long time are no longer here.
Some women who post regularly were/are targetted. It's often not immediately apparent.

Many of the feminists who posted on this board for a long time are no longer here. Some women who post regularly were/are targetted. It's often not immediately apparent

I notice this when lurking / occasionally posting. There are lots of wonderful voices who we have lost in the last 18 months thanks to harsh moderating, unclear rules and taking reports from non-MNers.

The other day I was wondering whether anyone had kept track of all the women who had been banned, I think it would make sobering reading.

I notice this when lurking / occasionally posting. There are lots of wonderful voices who we have lost in the last 18 months thanks to harsh moderating, unclear rules and taking reports from non-MNers

YY
It also reduces the possibility of framing some of the current topics within feminist theory & understanding.

I learned so much from many of the wonderful women's voices on this board.

They are keenly missed.

There is ongoing targetting of some regular FWR posters.

Absolutely agree we have lost some important voices from the board.

I understand Bewliderness wasnt actually banned - could she be persuaded by those who are in contact to return?

She and others are really missed - its really important that FWR has learned theoretical feminist voices for lurkers like me to read and learn from. Their experience and knowledge is invaluable and it's terrible to see strong voices silenced on a femisit board.

I would like to see a Mumsnet FWR Amnesty, and those missing in action returned to the board.

I would like to see a Mumsnet FWR Amnesty, and those missing in action returned to the board.

That would be awesome.

But it would also include all the previously banned posters who have been abhorrent to the women here. Some of whom are very slippery and have, for example, stayed just within talk guidelines whilst comparing their lack of a uterus to infertile women, etc.

Although frankly, as it's a private site, I don't see how HQ couldn't be perfectly partisan if they wanted to.

I think it would add to the integrity of the board, and the feminist argument to have our MIA back.

The downside - the slippery customers - well the same slippery customers keep reappearing anyway - so it would make no difference on that side of things.

So Mumsnet - is it a goer?

The MIA (your words) got banned for a reason though presumably.
If it's an amnesty as you say, surely any of those (within reason) posting a different viewpoint to the majority should be allowed back too?

I miss Bewilderness too, youllvehadyourtea (I've always loved your username btw, possibly because of having Edinburgh rellies).

pratchett

certainhalfdesertedstreets

offred

thebewilderness

angryattackkittens

off the top of my head

all sorely missed

TheUterati

Yes, all sorely missed.

And banned for stating facts.

Has angryattackkittens been banned???

Yes I think so

dunno re AAK, but haven't seen her here for a long time

the Feminism and Women's Rights board will be closed over my dead body.

That is reassuring - I started getting anxious that the whole purpose of the survey was a box ticking exercise to close FWR down with the 'appearance of consent' - a bit like the govt GRA consultation. It's nice to know MNHQ value the forum even if it is a pita to moderate.

FWR rocks.

Further to R0's post I would love the wonderful Pat Craven to do a webchat and think it would be invaluable for many women on this site. @MNHQ could you please try to set it up?