TRAs try to ruin Mumsnet survey

[2019StandingforWomen]

Just seen this one Twitter:

Transactivists are sharing a survey from @MumsnetTowers
(asking for feedback on their message boards), they're encouraging people to identify as users & complain about feminist chat. Mumsnet boards are important to so many women so please show your support

What survey is this does anyone know?

That's not why they don't argue their case. It's because it's not a very convincing one.

That's not been my experience on here, but everyone thinks differently.
For me that's the way it is and I bet it is for a lot of others

Remember though, that Justine Roberts wants Mumsnet to be a space for free speech, which is something she believes in. [Justine is on record as saying this.]
*
So, I am inclined to believe that Justine Roberts will stay true to her belief, here.*

My expectation is that this clear evidence of malicious survey-rigging will only serve to strengthen MNHQs backbone.

So, I am inclined to believe that Justine Roberts will stay true to her belief, here.

Certainly hope so.

FWR is the third most popular board on here - after AIBU and Chat. So probably won't close it down.

But an even heavier-handed moderation policy? Could leave us unable to properly discuss the serious threat to women's sex-based rights - because we're not allowed to use the words to do so.

Thought

IF there was evidence of a mass rigging attempt and MN had evidence for that, and those views were considerably different from the actual user base, would MN go public about that?

That's not why they don't argue their case. It's because it's not a very convincing one.

YY. The problem kind of is it's not really possible to have a balanced date as it gives false authority to one sides argument's.

It's like having climate change deniers debating climate scientists, or flat earthers debating astronomers.

it takes a certain amount of mental strength coupled with thick skin to be on the receiving end of any pile on if you disagree with a majority.

Meanwhile women are banned from other platforms for stating biological reality and viewpoints that don’t align with the woke brigade. Plenty of women are subjected to outright harassment for stating facts ( like Caroline Farrow, Megan Murphy, Martina Navratilova, Alison Moyet.... ).
In my view, ‘pile-ons’ happen here when TRA’s come to a feminism board and say offensive and insulting things about what it means to be a woman. It’s not just about ‘disagreeing with the majority’.

It’s not just about ‘disagreeing with the majority’

Indeed. It's also about disagreeing with reality.

Was just saying why a lot won't engage, have seen posts on here before saying what's the point

I honestly don't think Justine wants to shut the board down. (She might be considering selling, and is testing the water, tho.)

But if this board was going to be shut down, it would have been done a year or two ago. The Zeitgeist is now very firmly on the side of gender critical feminism.

This board may have driven part of the narrative, but now it is also reflective of public opinion.

There's no need to get rid of it.

That’s fine, but why do they need to stop us from talking freely with each other? They don’t want to be here but they do want to take part in a survey that has nothing to do with them, to try and control what a bunch of mostly women talk about or how we talk about it? That is coercive control and it’s disturbing.

Hi all.
I'm not sure I can answer some of these questions with an approved Mumsnet tone of voice.
So - before I get hauled in front of Justine to explain myself tomorrow, here goes...

It's just a survey - if we find that it's unusable because the data is skewed then we'll do another. We'll ask more people and we'll get more data. The survey is to help us to run the community better - we need to ask questions so that we can find out how we're doing - and what we should be doing in future.

Here are some of the questions...
Are you a registered member of Mumsnet, and if so, roughly how long have you been a Mumsnet member?

How often do you visit Mumsnet Talk?

If you never or rarely visit Mumsnet Talk, what might make you read the Talk boards?

Approximately how many posts on Mumsnet do you write in a month?

What, if anything, would make you post more on Mumsnet?

If you have reported a thread or post, how happy were you with the outcome?

If you haven't posted on a thread before, or haven't posted very often, what would encourage you to post (or post more often)?

How do you feel about our Talk guidelines?

To what extent do you agree or disagree with the following statement: "MNHQ reacts promptly to problems on the Talk boards".

Do you use any forums other than Mumsnet? If so, what's the best other forum you know?
(I'm really interested in this one)

If you think Mumsnet is better than other forums, what's the main reason?
(and this)

To what extent do you agree or disagree with Mumsnet's moderation approach around the following things on the Mumsnet Talk boards?
(this was the one where the hottest topics were mentioned - Brexit, disablism, trans issues etc.)

What one thing, if anything, do you think would improve the Mumsnet Talk boards?
(I can't wait to read the comments on this one - they will help us to moderate and support the community in future)

Who, if anyone, would you most like us to invite to take part in a Mumsnet webchat?
(we want a load of cool guests - you can tell us who to invite)

To answer a couple of other questions...
Yes, we know about coercive control. The whole community team (and Mumsnet as an organisation) feel very strongly about it.

And last but not least... the Feminism and Women's Rights board will be closed over my dead body.

it takes a certain amount of mental strength coupled with thick skin to be on the receiving end of any pile on if you disagree with a majority

I've done it on MN before on certain issues which are important to users (women) and are taboo and not spoken about a great deal.

I've learnt that if your argument is sound and strong over time people will eventually come over to your point of view. Debate here helps you develop your case, and in some cases revise parts of your original point and strengthen it in doing so.

I do not believe you merely need a thick skin to challenge views. I think you just need a credible argument, phrased well and argued politely though robustly.

Where a lot fall down in challenging status quo views is through tone and being combatative and confrontational rather than realising its a slow process of chipping away at an argument. And if you haven't got a credible argument to begin with, you'll get shown up for the weakness of your point of view and for failing to think it all through.

It's not mental strength you need at all. It's to show respect and to have a little patience.

Thanks Michael.

I think one important question is, why did you make it open to non-members? I know you asked the question, but couldn’t someone say they were but in fact not be? Surely MNHQ would of realised that a certain aggressive group of people would hear about it and complete it for one purpose only.

Thank you, Michael. I appreciate that you've taken the time to engage with this thread.

And last but not least... the Feminism and Women's Rights board will be closed over my dead body.

Love that .. thank you.

Thank you.

That's somewhat reassuring.

Thank you MNHQ. From a dedicated lurker (mostly)

Yes, we know about coercive control. The whole community team (and Mumsnet as an organisation) feel very strongly about it.

And last but not least... the Feminism and Women's Rights board will be closed over my dead body

Thanks Michael - thats reassuring.

I’m sure I remember a couple more questions specifically about trans and brexit thread than are represented in that post

On a night like this (I'm watching Parliament) that kind of honesty and commitment from @MichaelMN is incredibly refreshing and welcome.

Thank you

Women's Rights board will be closed over my dead body
Great news. Thanks Michael

Thank you for the the update @MichaelMumsnet.

Much appreciated.

Thanks Michael.

Just a note though, we need to be able to use plain language, with normally accepted definitions to be able to discuss women's rights.

It'll be no good if, for example, we're not able to define the word "woman". Moderation is heavier-handed towards women discussing their rights than on any other topic on Mumsnet.

Yes, we know about coercive control. The whole community team (and Mumsnet as an organisation) feel very strongly about it

MN have done some great work in collaberation with Women's Aid & the police to try to raise awareness of Coersive Control.

Video 'WalkingOn Eggshells' here which is often promoted on the sidebar:
www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=hC1pCi-GwGU

It isn't just about feeling stongly about it, its also about understanding and recognising the common (often hidden) dynamics & patterns.

Women who have had first hand experience of coercive control / abuse are very aware of repeated patterns or 'red flags'

The thread Lang linked is a very valuable resource which highlights how the same attempted control patterns within relationships are also experienced online.

Trolling and Online Abuse - Is there a difference? by Coercive Control Conference twitter account
threadreaderapp.com/thread/1110452108183195649.html

@MichaelMumsnet I wonder if you might take a look and consider making it a source of consideration & perhaps discussion within the team please?