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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

‘More acceptance’ of S&M needed

999 replies

Imnobody4 · 25/03/2019 10:05

talkradio.co.uk/news/more-acceptance-needed-sm-activities-19032230392
My morning isn't starting well. Haven't heard the programme - not sure I could stand it.

OP posts:
WeRiseUp · 02/04/2019 22:22

I’m fed up with the shit that I’m taking here

I honestly don't have anything against you. I brought up the thing about the hypothetical mask as an example of separating what should be legal from illegal. It was in response to the ott response that wearing latex should be made illegal if harmful things are.

VeronicaDinner · 02/04/2019 22:22

This is a nonsense. This has got nothing to do with BDSM at all.

Bankofenglandfiver · 02/04/2019 22:23

This is actually nothing to do with bdsm.

Literally nothing.

WeRiseUp · 02/04/2019 22:23

You mean like David carradine and auto erotic asphyxiation.

Was he the one with the orange in his mouth? I always thought that detail suggested someone else had a hand in it.

Bankofenglandfiver · 02/04/2019 22:23

The hypothetical mask that no one would ever wear and would kill anyone who did?

Hmm
Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:23

And yet again. This is not about ‘real’ bdsm. It is about sex, violence and consent.

VeronicaDinner · 02/04/2019 22:23

Yes, you shouldn't be able to murder someone by cutting off their air supply. I think we all agree about that. And there's no legal confusion about that either. It's a crime.

Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:24

Stephen Milligan was the orange guy.

WeRiseUp · 02/04/2019 22:25

This has got nothing to do with BDSM at all.

Some of us have moved on from "what is/isn't BDSM?" to "What should/should not be legal - even if someone consents?".

Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:26

Spanner trust actually lists plastic bags over heads to cut off air supply as bdsm.

Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:27

They want it to be legal and say it is not life threatening.

Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:29

‘WHAT IS LIFE THREATENING?
This too is a grey area. Putting a plastic bag over someone’s head, tying a cord around their neck, forcing smoke into their lungs, water immersion, breath control, holding a gun or knife to their head can all be life threatening in the context of a real non-consensual kidnap or torture scene.
Where these activities take place during a consensual BDSM scene the intention is clearly not to threaten or endanger life. However taken in isolation it may not be obvious from
the image whether or not there is a real threat to life. If the image is part of a sequence

or a video which shows the consensual nature of the activity and that the recipient of the activity was not harmed then that could provide a defence should the images be seized, particularly if you are a participant in the activities.‘

Bankofenglandfiver · 02/04/2019 22:29

Putting a plastic bag over your head to cut off your air supply is fucking stupid and likely to kill you. If someone else does it to you, it’s manslaughter at least, or murder, depending on the MR.

clear enough?

WeRiseUp · 02/04/2019 22:29

you shouldn't be able to murder someone by cutting off their air supply. I think we all agree about that. And there's no legal confusion about that either. It's a crime.

I think we are all in agreement - but where do you draw the line between 'breath play' and 'cutting off air supply'? It is important because a lot of fucked up dudes are pushing it further away from 'blowback' to suffocation.

Bankofenglandfiver · 02/04/2019 22:30

Rebreather masks are nothing close to choking. And they aren’t latex with no holes either. They’re just gas masks.

VeronicaDinner · 02/04/2019 22:30

Where do we draw the line? Well, somewhere quite a long way short of an exit bag Hmm

Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:31

And it doesn’t matter if we are all in agreement. It is about how this plays out in law.

Bankofenglandfiver · 02/04/2019 22:33

Yeah so might it not have been an idea to engage with the person on the thread who has taken the time to learn about bdsm and the law? Or is that just too sensible for ye?

AssassinatedBeauty · 02/04/2019 22:35

Why do the Spanner trust have such a different view about what bdsm involves?

FermatsTheorem · 02/04/2019 22:35

Yes, you shouldn't be able to murder someone by cutting off their air supply. I think we all agree about that. And there's no legal confusion about that either. It's a crime.

But that's the whole blooming problem - it should be a crime, but it frequently isn't being.

Recent case - man meets woman, they sleep together. She is found dead from loss of blood from knife wounds the next day. The knife was found under his pillow. He claims he always kept a knife under his pillow just in case the opportunity for consensual blood play arose. He claims that they met, discovered they were both into blood play, it was consensual, he misjudged it.

She is dead, so not there to contest whether or not it was consensual.

He is found not guilty.

There are men in the UK getting away with murder using BDSM as a defence. This is a very real problem. It's not some hypothetical problem, to be wafted away with a quick bit of waffle about "YKINMKATOK".

There are men in the UK getting away with rape by claiming it was consensual rough sex. Again, real problem, not hypothetical.

The BDSM afficionados on this thread say "but that's not BDSM, that's a travesty of BDSM." But juries, the CPS, the police, the judiciary are not making this distinction. They are simply seeing an increasingly pornified culture in which BDSM (whether the real deal or some travesty - to the outsider it looks the same) is being mainstreamed.

Again - recently on MN a poster pointed out that the police no-crimed her rape complaint because her bruises and cuts were not evidence, because apparently violence is a normal part of sex these days.

And that mainstreaming of BDSM is vitiating my right to withhold my consent - because my withholding of my consent no longer means anything in the eyes of the police, the CPS, juries, the judiciary, because apparently some man's claim that all women, me included, like it rough outweighs my testimony.

So BDSM is not just your private kink, it's impacting my life and the lives of millions of women in the UK.

Ereshkigal · 02/04/2019 22:36

I want to see certain "consensual" acts of violence be strict liability crimes, and that be enforced and apply in cases such as the Natalie Connolly case.

WeRiseUp · 02/04/2019 22:36

it doesn’t matter if we are all in agreement

I beg to differ. I think there needs to be some organised effort to refute the Spanner Trust stuff. If people who are opposed to BDSM/Kink and people who are into it can both agree that the Spanner Trust crosses the line, then there is more hope that something can be done.

Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:37

The Spanner Trust advises the government on the rights of bdsm communities, so presumably they are well informed.

Endofthedays · 02/04/2019 22:37

Good point, Rise.

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